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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

1.Vedha:i know he always go for a hindi tune in his films(mostly for Modern theatres).No alterations! he just copy a full hindi song !

best examble:Manam ennum medai mele(Gil tho ye kulu yahag)

2.MSV: i hear that(from Sujatha's book"Neerkumiligal") "thulluvatho elamai" was a song copied from english to almost all famous indian langages.Is there any other songs MSV copied?

3.Illayaraja:Even the GOD of MUSIC Raja sir did some thing like this.He just used that "I love you"style from BOneyM Sunny for "darling darling"in priya.I have heard a totally same song like "Kanavu kanum valkkai yavum" in Hindi also.(i forgot the film).

and i dont know who is the MD for the song"ehu pal vadiyum mugam! ethai parpathu than sugam".But i heard the same song in an english film.

4.ARR : i was told from my friends that he did copying intelligently.drum beats and some music styels from cassettes like "enigma,ace of base".And the humming before the song "thillana thillana" is a 100%copy from the film"the island of Dr.Mozeru".

5.SA Rajkumar : a lot of help from hindi! best example "mallikai puve malligai puve parthaya" from "didi tera thevaru thevana"

5.DEVA:hee..hee..the master.(better we see how many songs he did on his own instead of seeing how many songs he copied!)

like wise there is a lot of songs are copied from Tamil to Hindi also..

Now its your turn friends....

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net) on: Wed Feb 9 13:31:24 EST 2000
  
  Mugaum title lifted from
  "Pastorale" by Igor Stravinksy. He has used the same chord progressions and built an Indian melody on top of it.
  
  V...neer yaro!...adhu enna neja totu, kalathotu...:-)), yes it was taken from the above score., what you me do now, like you guys heard the so called samples!.. I heard this score.
  
  I posted this afer seeing some cruel remarks on samples etc. Yes telephone mani pol base parts alone sounds like ace of base!...what do you want to do?....now!..
  
  till today, we are saying the same thing about arr..he lifted some samples etc,
  why are samples sold! then...can some one come with an answer!...all the keyboard beats/sounds,..
  (including the hey ram songs) uses samples!....
  
  infact arr at times creats his own samples (other dont even think of!), like the tambourine sample in kanalane is not found any where in any samples lib, he should have sampled it himself. I checked for this sound in many music shops in chicago, ny etc to get that sample!..till date no one has it and few told it was a private sample , meaning created by the composer himself. Only arr has to answer this
  
  V....I dont support Blind bashing of any mds,
  
  
  
• From: IQ (@ dialup-209.244.107.193.sanjose1.level3.net) on: Wed Feb 9 14:07:28 EST 2000
  
  Srikant: I am in total agreement with you. I posted those links for the sake of people of Kumar who were curious about various accusations. I plead ignorance when it comes to ragas/western classical, so I am not an expert to comment on any possible IR copying.(though I hope to God he has only been inspired)
  Personally, even I dont think using a bass sample is a crime and about ethics..Boy! I dont even want to go there! :)
  I just listen to all these songs and as a layman, I can only relate to copying/sampling/inspiration(C/S/I) at this level. And no Sir, I am NOT a ARR basher. But even he surprises me occasionally, when he does stuff like the Iruvar song. Srikant, since I am not an expert, would you mind checking out both those links for the Jack Grusin song and let me know if it indeed was an inspiration.Thanks :)
  Kumar: The Ace of Base song is "All that she wants" and you can check out this song sample from the site I have posted.
  While on the subject, I have always wondered if "Maan oothu mandhayilae"(K.cheemaiyile) is C/S/I-ed from "Vaadi yen kappakazhange"! Cos' when I try to sing "Vaadi.." as vaadi yen kapakazha vaadi yen kapakazahnge, it sorta sounds similar!
  
  
• From: IQ (@ dialup-209.244.107.193.sanjose1.level3.net) on: Wed Feb 9 14:12:27 EST 2000
  
  As you can see, I never get a posting right the first time.( So in addition to being ignorant and innocent I am also dumb!) :)
  
  Srikant, I was asking you to check Dave Grusin's "Memphis Stomp" link.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net) on: Wed Feb 9 14:28:15 EST 2000
  
  IQ:Maan oothu mandhayilae
  .....the beat pattern are similar to a song from a group called oregon!....regarding vadi endkapa kazangu..might be the first line!...I feel things change very much after that...
  
  for me the hindi song Aaajasanam sounds just like rajaraja chozan --- no one agrees with me till date!...
  take the song by the rivers of babylon
  -- it is sounding just like the good old ulagam endryum ore mozi (i think 1960's)
  I would call it coincidence!..that all.
  
  vijay, I like your posting, yes it is true that there is no arr song which is a 100% lift!.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Wed Feb 9 19:47:49 EST 2000
  
  How about "aadi maasam poranthiruchchu" from "iNaintha kaigaL" being retuned as "senthamiz nattu thamizachchiyE" in "vandichchOlai chinnaraasu" ?
  
  (sRiks..summa vida mudiyalai :-))
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Wed Feb 9 19:50:27 EST 2000
  
  AAHAAAA....I had always been thinking about the "inaintha kaigaL" song itself as sth which I have heard somewhere before and that is....."ennarugil nee irundhaal iyarkai ellaam suzaluvadhEn"..oh man..eththanai thadavaippaa copy adippaaanga..
  
  It is only after I posted the first one did I recognize this..
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Wed Feb 9 20:03:38 EST 2000
  
  ARR's lifted tunes from old songs:
  
  (1)enna vilai azagE - thangap pathakkaththin mElE
  (2)senthamiz naattu - ennarugil neeyirundhaal
  (3)peNNalla peNNalla - pEsum maNimuththu
  
  In the first two songs he has taken the opening lines. Rest is his creation. It is just an "inspirational" start that is required for a man of his calibre. In the third song, he takes on a major scale whereas "pEsum" is in a minor scale. But that is no major difference :-). One can always take a song in mohanam and sing it in bhoopaaLam if it feels good, as both have the "sa ri ga pa dha sa" with differences in "ri" and "dha". If that is inspiration, let be it :-)
  
  Coming to IR:
  
  (1)sikkaatha sittondru (sethu)- hay maaji milke (khaamOshi)
  
  (2)en purushan thaan - dhum maro dhum (some great soul found this out !kudos !)
  
  (3) aaththi ithu vaathukkoottam - the beat is from "aarOdum maNNil intha neerOdum". to my knowledge there are only two songs in TFM with this beat.
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ rocib103-17.splitrock.net) on: Wed Feb 9 20:53:22 EST 2000
  
  uppukaruvaadu ooravacha sooru (1st 2 lines) -- Manippuraavum maadappuraavum.. (chorus) (song: andru oomaippennallo, movie: paarthaal pasitheerum, music: must be MSV
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Wed Feb 9 21:09:25 EST 2000
  
  enge nan kanden anarkali -- by raja,
  lift from kalellam manica kalAguma!...
  
  
  
• From: sk (@ harvest.ucar.edu) on: Wed Feb 9 21:45:29 EST 2000
  
  MS:
  
  aaththi ithu vaathukkoottam ..
  
  is it the Nadodi Thendral song?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.139) on: Thu Feb 10 00:40:01 EST 2000
  
  Srikanth,
  
  Now dont' start again mentioning 2 songs as copies just because the ragas are similiar! perhpas a few notes in the first few lines might be similiar between the 2 mayamalavagowlai songs that u have mentioned. this is another prob that I find in these type of threads. people say one song is copied from another just because of the raga similiarity. same is the case with aaja sanam and raja raaj chozhan. The similiarity, which is very less in the first place ends with the first line itself. The rest of the 2 songs are different. So u can call it as one of those coincidences!! say only the foll 3 as perhaps blatant copies: 1. kann malargalain azhaipidhazh from 'money money money'. the starting line is 100% similiar and it is difficult to imagine it as a coincidence somehow. 2. kanavu kaanum u know fom where 3. otha rooba thaaren from ennadi muniyamma. The rest are all bits and pieces recycling or in some cases are not copies at all!!. One of my friends claimed that the punnagai mannan theme is a blatant lift.Though I tend to believe him, i have not heard the original myself. if anyone knows pl. let me know.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.158) on: Thu Feb 10 00:48:27 EST 2000
  
  This is not copy, but a Raja recycle:
  
  The grand nagaswaram prelude for `mAnguyile' is the tune (melody) for `thooLiyilE' of Chinnathambi! (Some have already remarked that `thooLiyilE' is a recycle of some `kuyilukkuppam')
  
  It just happened last night that when I was so happy and started to play the `nagas' piece (of course mimicking it with my throat) `mAnguyile', my wife completed it with lyrical version of `thooLiyilE'!
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Thu Feb 10 00:59:59 EST 2000
  
  vijay,
  fyi:I did not say this, I heard raja saying this in one of his live shows! I remember in Music acadamy for dav school function....he said this to prove his golden (:-)) statement ...music is noting but emathu velai.
  
  btw: do you think I do not know the difference between songs in same ragas! :-))
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Thu Feb 10 01:02:22 EST 2000
  
  talking of recycle,
  sandhaiki vanda something....(in Siva!, I am not able to remember) similar to mangkuile...
  
  
  
• From: prabhudas (@ nico.pediatrics.sunysb.edu) on: Thu Feb 10 01:09:55 EST 2000
  
  Dear Knowledgeble TFM DFers (Mukkiyama Srikanth and others who play music in addition to having good knowledge about ICM/WCM)
  Again specifically Srikanth, this is just a thought which is been haunting me for few months,since you know reasonably well (or if I am wrong extremely well) how to play atleast few music (or most) instruments and know the in's and out's of most part of music in addition to the various styles of different composers of these years as well as the earlier years, with no offense of any sort to you or other knowledgeble musicians in this forum I came out with this thinking especially in this era of lot of copied , pliagiarized , lifted ( inspired ) music by most of the MDs ( especially ARR, Deva, Karthik Raja , vidyasagar, SAR, and others ), I have specifically omitted IR (we have had discussions about him several times, also these new MDs are the ones who are doing better now in the field except KR by producing the so called recycled or remixed, lifted, inspired songs )
  I am a good fan of IR,ARR,MSV and KR, but in my personal openion even when u appreciate the good/great compositions of ARR especially( he is one of the most talented MDs with absolutely no doubts about it), which also turn out to become chart bursters, but when I(we) come to know that they were some inspired, copied,lifts (not necessarily 100%)only charanam lifted with a little twist minnadi/pinnadi appadinnu or some old song's charanam used as a interlude music again with a fast rhythm or some sort of those stuff you know better than me, it really pains me (personally) so much that I think why should a talented MD like ARR/KR should be doing this? is this the reason they are successful(ARR at least)?Is this the way their talent achieved?Is this what we all are appreciating as greatest in Indian music? or should we say they are cheating the people with the not so original music for the amont of "dabbu" what they get?
  Now with all these in mind, and knowing about your knowledge, I wonder If this is not possible to be achieved by you or many other talented people, again with no offense to any body, can you or somebody form an anonymous troup or group with some talented musicians with a common name like say "sarigama" or some thing like that and churn out some real super duper songs with lot of inspiration(i hope you know what i mean), lifting the way these great guys are doing, copying a small portion of some old song adding some flavour /rhythm or things like that or even copy 100% from some rare yet pleasant and not so commonly known to lot of lay people ( i mean not lifting from MJ, Madonna,or Ricki Martin , Bob Morle, or Dr.Alban or some known identities, ) For ex: Smooth Jazz compositions not very famous in India ( so obviously not of Kenny J, but like DavE Brubeck, Grover Washington Junior, Naaji,David Sanborn, and others like that) I bet you the TN people can be easily cheated with these inspirations like how the shameless Deva/ARR are doing now and also give them a healthy compositions. Believe me if this conceptional, imaginary group knows the simple techniques of recycling old MSV tunes in a glorified way with great quality of recording and introduce themselves with a talented young director like Bala of Sethu , and release the album with some promo , I am sure they can replace Deva in no time and if they carefully use their techniques in a way ARR is using , even ARR will move to down ofcourse ultimately this imaginary troup also will not sustain, but atleast if you establish with 5 or 10 movies in a row and go public (not IPO) anouncing the people that it was a group work and expose to the people that this was/is how the other MDs were/are successful the TN people will realize (hopefully, Amma J vai marupadiyum marupadiyum elect panra TN makkal kitte HOPE ondi daan vekkanum, verenna seyya mudiyum, emmathara aalunga irukkirevaraikkum naanga emmaruvom ponravanga allava nam makkal)
  
  All the above were just a thought, with no intention to offend anybody and with no political intentions, but thought it is pretty reasonable to expose the shameless inspirers( Other name for Copy Cats)
  
  Prabhu das
  
  
• From: pinchi srinivasan (@ nico.pediatrics.sunysb.edu) on: Thu Feb 10 01:34:53 EST 2000
  
  read Move to down as move down
  
  

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