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Music directors !!

Topic started by Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on Sun May 13 19:02:00 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hey guys

I want to know what you think about Laxmikant Pyarelal and R.D. Burman. How do you like their music and their style and how would you compare them to Illyaraja and A.R. Rahman.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: lv (@ 203.199.130.43) on: Sat May 26 06:29:11 EDT 2001
  
  COSMICIAN:
  >>>>Because the Carnatic has been derived from the innermost depths of creativity and inspiration - spiritual if you want to call it...its essence is from the ultimate philosophy of mankind...the very origin of the soul....this being the case then just imagine where other music falls into place...
  
  Again, such a comparison is incorrect. Please - I mean NOTHING against Carnatic, but Hindustani is AS spiritual too!!! Sorry!!!
  
  >>>>it is only bcos the West knew Hindustani as INdian music (should we once again bring up the Conspiracy theory of how the North supressed the South ?) and it is more simpler to adapt than Carnatic...as a matter of fact the west is only now discovering the richness of Carnatic...and they know that it requires more serious training and study....
  
  This is factually wrong!!! I never mean anything against ARR,IR,L Subramaniam, Narasimhan,Lalgudi Jayaraman at all!! I was just poiting out mistakes in what someone says about Hindustani!
  
  
  >> Why is HFM not based on Hindustani ? (the answer to this might be in the answer to #1)
  MDs like IR have done wonderful work in popularising Carnatic music..making it more stylistic and modern by playing carnatic phrases along with WCM counter points
  
  This is wrong. raagas were used in HFM too!!
  
  
• From: lv (@ 203.199.130.43) on: Sat May 26 06:38:40 EDT 2001
  
  BM:
  
  Well, I felt people were trying to undermine NI classical. I love Carnatic too!!! Thats why I quoted examples. I MEAN NO COMPARISON BETWEEN HINDUSTANI AND CARNATIC. SUCH A COMPARISON IS ABSURD!!
  
  If u want to know the names of Hindustani violin meastros please go the national academies in Benaras or Calcutta.
  
  
  Sugrutha:
  >>N.Rajam was a concert-grade Carnatic musician before she learnt Hindustani music. That might be the reason why her expression (on the violin) is much bettter then Jog's.
  
  NORMAL MAN:
  >>>>Bottom line there is no comparison between Hindustani and Caranatic (would be stupid to do so). So better know how the grass looks on the other side (I believe most of the sensible DF'ers here know the details of the grass on the other side), before you start some stupid comparison.
  
  I never intended any such comparison - thats your sweet misconception or misinterpretation. Sorry to hurt u, but I disgaree!!! BTW - are u Neels or RajaG?
  
  NORMAL MAN ( and Kiru):
  As far HFM not having used enough raagas -thats factually erroneous. There were thousands( from the 40s to say 1985) of raaga based songs even bordering on pure classical - as much as in TFM.
  Even recently LP composed a remarkable classical score in 'Bhairavi'(1996) a film that obviously bombed at the box office due to the large scale cheapening of tastes in the North. It had some evocative renditions by Kavita Krishnamurthy.
  
  
  
  
  
  Well, I dont think we have the right to make any such comparison.
  
  
  
  SWAMIJI:
  
  Well, sorry to hurt u. I know that u know a real lot in music. But i felt that a few mistakes should be corrected.
  
  >>>>But once again my point was to tell people that Carnatic was not imprisoned by vocalists alone. Instrumentalists (so very popular throughout the world) have freed our Classical form to great heights while strictly following tradition.
  
  Thats really true. I agree , but I wanted to say that the Hindustani maestros too have done that.
  
  
  
  
• From: lv (@ 203.199.130.43) on: Sat May 26 06:40:19 EDT 2001
  
  dear BM:
  
  As far as Shubha Mudgal goes, she is definitely not a POP Hindustani singer at all. Her classical renditions are unconevtional - true - but very very evocative and wonderful!!! She is as popular a classical singer as a pop artist.
  
  
• From: lv (@ 203.199.130.43) on: Sat May 26 06:42:01 EDT 2001
  
  dear sugrutha:
  
  We should not compare the styles of VM Jog and N rajam. I feel we are nobody to decide who is more
  expressive.
  
  
• From: lv (@ 203.199.130.43) on: Sat May 26 06:45:24 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician:
  
  Well as far as Carnatic being more spiritual than Hindustani or Hindustani being 'C' as Carnatic being 'Machine language' - thats wrong. BOTH are spiritual - yes definitely Hindustani has a lot of spiritualism and splendid use of CORE concepts of music and a detailed use of science and all that - just like Carnatic has.
  
  And before u start thinking that I have NOT heard Carnatic - i dont know why u think so - i am a fan of Lalgudi Jayaraman, and MS Subbulaxmi and L Subramanaiam and Narasimhan and Balamurli Krishna and many more. So please - please dont be angry with me!!!!
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sat May 26 08:05:59 EDT 2001
  
  Hey cool...I'm not angry with anybody here :)..everybody has a right to their opinion and views and substantiate with facts...and when proven wrong..be it North /South ...should 've the humility to accept.
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Sat May 26 11:06:58 EDT 2001
  
  'HFM music is based on Ragas' Of course ! All music is based on Ragas.
  
  In what I call 'modern' (including folk-based) songs, more then one Raga will be used in the same song normally. In 'classical' songs there is only one Raga - 'nainon mein badhra', 'laga chunari','paarthein sirithein', 'chiththiram pesuthadi' etc. But IR was able to give 'modern' songs in a single Raga. In HF they are now trying, good luck to them.
  
  And why the hell should I not say that N.Rajam is more expressive than Jog :-) I suppose only Suppudu is allowed to say such things !
  
  
• From: Normal Man (@ 64.157.55.24) on: Sat May 26 12:34:35 EDT 2001
  
  LV,
  The point about HFM not based on Hindustani raagas, is not that its not used. Why its not as widely and commonly used as in TFM. For sure IR bases all (95%) of his songs based on a raaga. ARR also most of the time does this. The bottom line is the probability and not "it was used".
  
  By the way I'm not rajaG or Neels. My earlier 3 year nick (Swami) was stolen by Swamiji :-). So I had to go for this.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Sat May 26 17:52:02 EDT 2001
  
  Sorry about that Normal Man. I thought this name was really catchy, so I took it!
  Anyways, LV - Dont worry you did not offend me by saying facts. The facts i stated were one sided (or atleast seemed to be) because I saw a few tamilians speaking in favor of North Indian music. Personally I feel there is nothing achieved by means of comparison, but this thread flamed up when there was a comparison with IR - which I think wasn't called for. So thats the root of this lengthy thread. Even some of your objective remarks seemed to anger people like us because of a comparison with IR. I understand your good intentions into making us believe Hindi Filmdom / Music measuring up equal to tamil - but just the context made us take ur words affront. There was one person speaking so high of LP and went even to the point of comparing them with IR -and at that time if you come up and say something like "have exceeded far from what IR did" turned your good intentions into a "taking the other side" thing. You know if tamilians themselves talk this way, how can another tamilian tolerate that? Simply put, although all your points were valid 100%, this thread in my opinion isnt a very effective place to deliver. I hope you take my words in good humor.
  Thanks!
  
  
  
• From: Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Mon May 28 20:40:09 EDT 2001
  
  Hey guys,
  
  long time no see. Anyways, it's interesting to see all the discussion going on around here. I want to know your opinion on who is the best MD duo ever in the North and the South, as well as the best India has ever had. I have posted up another discussion on this already but i want to know your guys opinions. Also, rank them on versatality, hits, variety etc. Please give your reasons also.
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue May 29 13:01:56 EDT 2001
  
  Just some observations:
  
  1. Both HFM and TFM have used classical - HFM (naturally) more of the Hindustani style and TFM more of the Carnatic style. To say a particular MD has used more classical is purely a function of that MD's interest, reputation, nature of film, audience reaction, etc etc.
  2. Piano is NOT suitable for playing CM - it is NOT possible to play Bairavi, thOdi, mukhaari.....with the sliding gamaka notes using a staccato instrument like Piano. Maybe possible with keyboards using pitchbend.
  3. CM is more defined and stricter on the use of the sliding gamaka notes and hence, Violin with fretless sliding scale became an ideal instrument of choice. And naturally, when an entire community (of generations of CM musicians) plays/practices/improvises/researches/explores that instrument for playing Carnatic Classical music, it follows that the general standard of expertise in that intrument for that particular type of application is enhanced. As an example, it is more common to find Indian classical violin teachers, classes, students, players, concerts,...in Chennai than in Mumbai. Just like one may find more Tabla teachers in Mumbai than Chennai.
  
  3. One's method of training may have its strengths and weaknesses too. For example, violin is a 4+ octave instrument. The western violin players tune the intrument to E A D G and use a single tuning to play ANY scale. Whereas, the Indian classical musicians (as in the case of any other instrument) CANNOT play different scales on the violin and consider it a daunting task when encountered with Sruthibedham. Please don't quote exceptions like LSub, LShank, MSG etc..Exceptions prove the rule. They also mostly play within a limited range which is well under the full capacity of the instrument.
  
  4. With all respects to Jog, he is not in the same league as MSG, LGJ, LSub, LShank, Mysore Nagraj, Manjunath....to name a few. Simply because he is NOT in the system and group of peers - after all you raise your level by comparison too. Just like you may not find a Tabla player of the calibre of Zakir, Swapan Chakraborthy, Vijay Ghate, et al....in Southern India.
  
  5. LV- You need to get better at identifying my "signature writing style and content":-) I still owe you one on why I think Asha is NO LESS tha Lata, and you owe everybody here on an item wise comparison of IR's music with a HF MD of your choice. Until then, Ciao!
  
  
  
• From: Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Tue May 29 18:04:58 EDT 2001
  
  Can you guys please tell me who do you think is better ??. SJ or LP !!. Please give good reasons for your opinion and don't just say what you think based on only a few songs you have heard of their's. Also, who composed better fast-paced and dance songs and who was the most versatile.
  
  See ya !!
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Tue May 29 19:23:39 EDT 2001
  
  IMF,
  why are you always interested in finding who is better, why not try to find best of SJ and LP and talk about that?
  
  

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