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Music directors !!

Topic started by Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on Sun May 13 19:02:00 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hey guys

I want to know what you think about Laxmikant Pyarelal and R.D. Burman. How do you like their music and their style and how would you compare them to Illyaraja and A.R. Rahman.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: lv (@ 203.197.82.76) on: Fri May 25 11:46:45 EDT 2001
  
  KK:
  >>>>Pattukku pattu is a old term, thats there in tamil folk for centuries now. People answer each other, as a songs in real time. Something like Yaksha Gana in Tulu.
  
  
  There is the type called 'sawaal jawaab' in Hindi.Marathi and Gujrathi music.
  
  
• From: lv (@ 203.197.82.76) on: Fri May 25 11:54:29 EDT 2001
  
  e-hari:
  >>>>>On the contrary, I feel Hindustani music is very resistive to changes. e.g. a pure western instrument like violin was adopted and approved in carnatic, where hindustani music, it was not.
  
  The violin has been used in Hindustani. So has the guitar, the piano (very recently). And Ravi Shankar used the sitar and surbahaar to play WESTERN MUSIC TOO!!!!!
  
  
  >>>BTW, when was the last time, the hindustani music was flowing constantly, mugal time? i.e 500 yrs back. I mean, it would have become stagnant by this time.
  
  This is factually wrong. HM is very popular even in the West. Thats why people flock to see the concerts of several Hindustani classical singers and instrumentalists all over the world. HM has NOT stagnated. New innovations are defintely coming up, and at a rate that you would not like to accept at all. HM is flowing and very poular and its popularity is increasing, my dear. Please listen to a pure classical concert by Shubha Mudgal and see the fantastic innovations she has brought about in her style of singing. It was amazing. Else listen to a tape of Ravi Shankar performing with Yehudu Menuhin or Zubin Mehta. Or of Hariprasad Chaurasia with the same!!
  
  
• From: bm (@ 152.163.213.53) on: Fri May 25 13:11:39 EDT 2001
  
  lv...did anybody start this discussion of Carnatic music being superior etc..? ur friend IMF started this absolute BS like CM is stagnant based on Nikhil banerjee's opinions ! people here arent stupid and immature to compare and complain.the instruments Swamiji quoted were all for the purpose of telling eggheads that CM isnt stagnant or something. now you come up with the list of instruments and torment us all with questions like " do u know what santoor is ?" heard of the mohan veena " "heard of vg jog "etc.. Why do u want to assume that the people who communicate in this forum are ignoramuses ? the violin is still not a popular instrument in hindustani music scene..after Vg jog and N Rajam can u name any violin expert?
  
  As for the encores etc..we have all seen the quality of general audience in such concerts ! so dont you try to scare people with such facts..
  >>>>>Do we have the surbahaar,sarangi,sarod,santoor and sitar????"
  
  IF u want the list of songs in which IR /MSV have used these instruments in their music score , start listening to TFm more seriously before making such claims.
  >>>> Please listen to a pure classical concert by Shubha Mudgal and see the fantastic innovations she has brought about in her style of singing.
  
  i know what place she occupies among the Himdustani musicians...she is more of a pop Hindustani musician than a traditional one ! the very fact that she has brought about these "Fantastic changes "in to her style of singing only denotes how much it was in need . she has once said in an interview what she felt about the usual traditional stuff and how she wants to break free from these..and more importantly her non classical albums are more in demand than her traditional offerings..!
  
  
  
• From: Normal Man (@ 63.97.162.76) on: Fri May 25 13:34:03 EDT 2001
  
  LV,
  You always seem to have a distinction of starting some absurd comparison (the way you started LM comparison). One quick question LV. Why aren't the HFM songs not based on any Hindustani raagas? Don't come up and quote a song and ask "have you heard that song?". The point here is why its not as widely used as carnatic in TFM or any song composed south of Bombay.
  
  Also thanks for enlightening us with violin maestro of the likes of N Rajam. By the way, have you heard of a person by name, Lalgudi Jayaraman or our very less known V.S.Narasimhan (though both on different ends of the court, master's in their own way). Contrary to your myth that there are more popular inventors in Hindustani, these people are recognized throught India more than any Hindustani player.
  
  Bottom line there is no comparison between Hindustani and Caranatic (would be stupid to do so). So better know how the grass looks on the other side (I believe most of the sensible DF'ers here know the details of the grass on the other side), before you start some stupid comparison.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri May 25 14:20:00 EDT 2001
  
  LV,
  It is nice that you pointed out mistakes. If you look into the context where i replied, you will find (just like bm says) I wanted to clear misconceptions of Hindustani being more instrumental compared to Carnatic. But I cannot at the same time tolerate a tilt in HFM's favor any day. (I knew D. N. Rajam plays violin Hindustani because I have personally seen her in Banaras - it mustve slipped my mind). But once again my point was to tell people that Carnatic was not imprisoned by vocalists alone. Instrumentalists (so very popular throughout the world) have freed our Classical form to great heights while strictly following tradition.
  
  I also want people not to forget their roots. I am born Tamilian, so it is only natural that I learn the beauties of Carnatic first before I explore hindustani. Don't forget your roots is my sincere request.
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Fri May 25 15:35:00 EDT 2001
  
  N.Rajam was a concert-grade Carnatic musician before she learnt Hindustani music. That might be the reason why her expression (on the violin) is much bettter then Jog's. BTW, she is T.N.Krishnan's sister and also sister-in-law to Vani Jayaram.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri May 25 17:51:07 EDT 2001
  
  I am not that music savvy so here are some questions -
  
  1) What are the roots of Hindustani music ?
  
  2) Why is HFM not based on Hindustani ? (the answer to this might be in the answer to #1)
  
  MDs like IR have done wonderful work in popularising Carnatic music..making it more stylistic and modern by playing carnatic phrases along with WCM counter points. He also has orchestrated Carnatic rAgams with drums and guitar a lot. He continues to do this even today. (Listen to ennenna pAda paduththara song interludes in AndAn adimai).
  So I think Normal Man asked a good question (my question #2).
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri May 25 19:40:00 EDT 2001
  
  I wonder how piano is used to play hindustani...if that can be done, u can play carnatic with piano too, not at all difficult.
  VM bhat's guitar (actually u may call it a slide guitar) resembles the old indian fret to a great extent. Although I wouldn't call it a guitar similar to what Prasanna plays - they are two entitrely different instruments played differently. Once again I am not saying one is better than the other - but they are different thats all.
  And this is something else - Playing western melodies with indian instruments isn't a difficult task. So "he played western too" isnt a great feat. What is important when u play western music is the aspect of Harmony, which indian instruments are not designed to produce the way western instruments can do.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.161.201) on: Fri May 25 19:56:32 EDT 2001
  
  lv;
  
  your posts in this section were enlightening. I enjoyed reading them....my salutes!!
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 204.124.247.1) on: Fri May 25 21:44:02 EDT 2001
  
  Kiru,
  
  That is true. In HFM, it is either 'modern' songs - a medley of Indian folk, Arab and western sounds, or pure classical songs - bhajans, ghazals, khayal-type songs, of course the qawwali being an intermediate. Even in TFM I think to some extent it was the same, till IR came. And now ARR. I dont listen much to current HFM, but songs like 'pani vizhum malar vanam' or 'en veettu thottaththil, poovellam kettu paar' are not heard in HFM.
  
  
• From: bm (@ 152.163.201.194) on: Fri May 25 22:56:12 EDT 2001
  
  It is not correct to say that HFM isnt raaga based. they were , till RDB and LP were composing. After the arrival of Nadeem shravans of this world it has really stopped having any classical connections.i remember seeing a site that listed the various hindi film songs and their raagas..i will try to post the link
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sat May 26 05:43:38 EDT 2001
  
  >>>Recently, a program of Lataji's songs called 'Norway loves Lata' was telecast for many days on their National music channel. Lata's Royal Albert Hall concert in 1975 was considered an international event. Also, she got repeated encores from the Europeans. And she and Asha have got repeated encores from Non-Indians during all their previous concerts. When Lata went to French Guyana she was greeted by a band playing 'O Sajana ...'. Her songs are populare even in Russia, Africa and Uzbekistan. <<<<
  
  Oh..Lv...is Lataji a composer ? wow looks like she has beat the popularity of even the inspiration for her songs !
  
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sat May 26 05:55:20 EDT 2001
  
  ...and lv...looks like you listen to more of Hindi music...good...actually better to have both sides of the story...
  
  if Ravi Shankar and a whole lot of other names you had mentioned were so popular in the West and even with the Beatles....it is only bcos the West knew Hindustani as INdian music (should we once again bring up the Conspiracy theory of how the North supressed the South ?) and it is more simpler to adapt than Carnatic...as a matter of fact the west is only now discovering the richness of Carnatic...and they know that it requires more serious training and study....Carnatic music can be called something like from the Source..like Assemble Language...extremely powerful...why I'd go to the extent of calling Hindustani - a derivative from Carnatic, (God forgive me, I only say what I intuitively fee with no malice or ill intent meant)...why I'd even go to the extent of saying that all music - the source code can be Carnatic...why ? Because the Carnatic has been derived from the innermost depths of creativity and inspiration - spiritual if you want to call it...its essence is from the ultimate philosophy of mankind...the very origin of the soul....this being the case then just imagine where other music falls into place...
  You can treat the above in whatever way you want..Truth alone prevails...will prevail...all other things we discuss are too trivial...
  
  ..and thanks for giving me an opportunity to rave...
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sat May 26 05:57:43 EDT 2001
  
  Read
  
  "Because the Carnatic ...." as "Because Carnatic..."
  
  

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