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Advantages of composing prewritten lyrics

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 64.136.27.31) on Tue Aug 12 11:51:47 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

While listening to many old songs, the advantages of prewritten lyrics for composers and singers became evident. I will start with two examples and we can add more as we discover them.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Sat Aug 30 17:36:57 EDT 2003
  
  I have finally recorded my interpretation of Udhaya's Paadhi raavil. I have to first say thanks to rjay for giving me the much needed push to pursue this endeavour. Also, the song was recorded right after I came back from work, tired. So please ignore any mistakes.
  
  I could not record more than 1-minute clips using my computer's sound recorder. So I had to record several clips and do some editing to patch them up. As a result of some not-so-good editing, the thaalam is off at times. And most importantly, I had to slice the file into two files because of geocities uploading problems. Part I is from the beginning to end of Charanam 1. Second part takes it from there to the very end.
  
  The links are
  http://www.geocities.com/tangirags/Padhiraavil-I.mp3 and http://www.geocities.com/tangirags/Padhiraavil-II.mp3
  
  I would like to know if you guys have any comments (negative and positive) about this.
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 68.62.91.125) on: Sat Aug 30 21:23:19 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi, your voice is adorable...singing is soulful..."subhapanthuvarali". You're a GOOD Singer. Your tune and style of singing reminding me of a song "Madhava - Mounama" an old classic sung by Ghantasala...My hearty appreciation for your voice and the tune...I sincerely wish that you get to sing in some good devotional works of capable musicians here...I believe that's not far if you wish so.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Sat Aug 30 22:42:47 EDT 2003
  
  kalakkals..excellent kaumudi..thinking now how the same line "paadhi raavil thookkamilla yekkam thaana en vithi" could be interpreted as:
  
  (1) a peppy teasing number in Sreedhar's imagination
  (2) a lax guy playing guitar kinda situation in a romantic mood in New ageish tune of rjay
  (3) an energetic youth (SPB :-) ) trying to "konjufy" his love in my interpretation
  (4) a lover lamenting over his "vithi" (fate) and "gathi" (lost love) in the raga shubapanthuvaraaLi in Kaumudi's version.
  
  Has imparted new ideas to people like me..great going !
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.21.97) on: Sun Aug 31 10:44:08 EDT 2003
  
  Aditya and MS
  Thanks for your kind words.
  
  Aditya
  Yeah, I know that song from Sri Satyanarayana Mahatyam that you are talking about. That is a full-of-sadness kind of a song. Ghantasala (his own composition) even chokes and almost cries in the song. Whereas there is more of "viraham" (what is the word for longing/yearning in tamil?) and emptiness feeling in Udhaya's song. I guess the fact that both are based on Subhapanthuvarali links them both. But I have to say, that I wasn't even thinking about this song while composing:-)
  
  MS
  May be there will be more interpretations from others coming along. The more the better.
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 68.62.91.125) on: Sun Aug 31 11:31:47 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi, yes I am sure that the moods are different in these two songs...that was a filmy number which actually needs some extra effects of choking and crying:-))
  Your style of singing is like Ghantasala perhaps not by imitation but naturally...remember that this is actually a compliment than anything
  else:-)) He was a virtuos singer with great expressive voice - some of his numbers are sung as though they were made for him only..."Siva Sankari" song in Darbari Kaanada is just a simple example...
  
  I felt even you can evolve into a very similar expressive voice...Good Luck...
  
  My comments are purely from your music stand point without really bringing Udhaya's song into context...I think you should receive more serious and valuable comments taking udhaya's lyrics into account which others can do more justice.
  
  Regards,
  Aditya
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.172.107.6) on: Sun Aug 31 13:22:31 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi,
  Chalk me up as another fan of your voice. Amazingly expressive. Thanks for the stellar pronunciation too. Especially the way you've delivered "veNmathikkum" was lovely.
  
  Couple more versions and we can release a CD and name it, "Oru Veedu Onbathu Vaasal".
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 172.189.6.217) on: Sun Aug 31 15:31:45 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi, rjay, Sridhar and MS, great work. Udhayavukkum oru sabAsh. veNmathiyai 'nilavu oru peNNAgi' , 'Adai katti vantha nilavO' endru peNNudan oppittu kEttu salithhu pOna en sevigaLukku, sOgathhil thathhaLikkum AN maganaukku mErkOLAga kAttiyathu oru azhagiya puthumai. antha nilavum sari, AN vargamum sari ungaLai pOtrum :). AN vargathhin meethu antha nilavoLiyai padara cheithatharukku en manamArntha nandri.
  
  When I read through the lyrics the mood/the vision that came through to me was that of a lovelorn man reflecting on the situation without a very overt display of negativity something on the lines of 'engirunthAlum vAzhga' in 'nenjil Or Alayam'. Just an undercurrent of melancholy. Glad to note that MS' interpretation of the lyrics matched mine. MS, the 'Ekkam thAnA en vithi' is a very savoury piece and I ended up humming that line alone for a long time. Keeps urging one to taste it more, roll it in the mouth and enjoy the process of getting it mixed with one's digestive system. Inspires one to add a lot of expressive masala to it :). I could imagine SPB putting that line through with just that wee bit of a tremble to indicate sorrow.
  
  Great job guys, this could well be a talent scout forum.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 172.189.6.217) on: Sun Aug 31 15:36:08 EDT 2003
  
  MS, I thought I almost heard SPB stretching the word 'Ekkam' and shortening the following word, the second time the line is sung:). A tune composed with a singer in mind, wow !!! Very appropriate.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Sun Aug 31 16:02:34 EDT 2003
  
  SL :-) good to see you back. Personally I thought the line "malaravaL iNangaamale" came much better than any of the other lines. Anyway good to know you liked "Ekkam" :-)
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.109.78) on: Sun Aug 31 17:08:27 EDT 2003
  
  Udhaya, Sriram - thanks. It is particularly satisfactory to receive good comments, especially about pronunciation, from the creator of the song. A heartfelt thankyou. I, however, mispronounced "iNangaamal" as "inangaamal". Had no idea which one it was, sorry.
  
  Sriram: My interpretation of these lyrics is not based on my understanding of them. It is rather based on others' comments in the forum. And this, of course, is because of my lack of understanding of the language. So over a few days after rjay's song release, I read through all of the postings and tried to understand the underlying theme of the song and gathered it to be melancholy and longing feeling. And the first scale that came to my mind was Subhapanthuvarali.
  
  MS: I agree with Sriram on the "Ekkam" part of your tune. Oh, I simply love the transition from Ekkamthaana to en vithi - NiRiSaNiDaDa daDaNiDa - it is so cute.
  
  Aditya: Of course, I knew that you were complimenting:-) and it is taken with a sincere thanks. I really value your comments. And you, by saying that the expressiveness in my voice resembles that of legendary singer Ghantasala, are simply being too nice. My God, expressiveness is Ghantasala's and Balu's middle name. One has to listen to "Mantalu raepe nelaraja" and countless other songs of Ghantasala to understand and learn how to express the mood of the song. Anyway, thanks again.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 195.93.33.7) on: Sun Aug 31 18:06:57 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi, you're welcome. Such an effort from a person without much command over the language, kudos !!!
  MS, yes. 'iNangAmalE' is another meaty point, where a singer can feel fulfilled. One of these days, we will talk about it.
  
  
• From: Radhika (@ 141.150.127.226) on: Mon Sep 1 15:11:29 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi,
  Finally had a chance to listen to your rendition of "Paadhi Raavil". I am very impressed!!!
  It was really hard to believe that you dont really know Tamil. Thanks to the effort you have taken, the pronounciation and your emotional rendition were right on the mark!!!
  Do keep us entertained with more songs in the future. My best wishes to you!!!
  Radhika
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Mon Sep 1 16:14:31 EDT 2003
  
  Radhika
  Thanks for the wishes. I am glad you liked it.
  
  I have to clarify to everyone though: I can speak Thamizh - day-to-day spoken Thamizh, very simple layman language, that is (of course,not without mistakes). I can't, however, understand anything that is slightly more complex than spoken Thamizh. For example, I didn't understand anything that Sriram wrote in the first paragraph of his post three posts ago. Just thought I should make this clear.
  
  
• From: Perseverance (@ 66.25.48.225) on: Tue Sep 2 12:18:20 EDT 2003
  
  Dear Kaumudi:
  
  I listened to your composition. I do not understand Tamil and hence I am not sure if it is a sad song (going by lyrics). But after listening to your composition, I presume that the mood of the song is that of a feeling of some sadness, as something lovable has been lost (if I made it clear enough).
  
  The choice of the ragam was excellent. Again I don't know the name of the ragam you chose but I recognized the swaras:
  
  Sa
  Ri (komal)
  Ga (komal)
  Ma (theevra)
  Pa
  Da (komal)
  Ni
  Sa
  
  Pardon my lingo because I know more of Hindustani classical music notes than Carnatic.
  
  If we can find a good orchestra for this song, yours will come out damn good!!!
  
  Good work! (even after getting tired off work ;)
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Tue Sep 2 16:54:21 EDT 2003
  
  Perseverence
  Thanks for the wishes.
  
  What you show is exactly the scale I chose for this composition. As Aditya already pointed it out, it is called Subhapanthuvarali (sampoorna ragam) in carnatic. Asavari.org says that the hindusthani equivalent of this is Todi (hindusthani). I am not sure about the accuracy of this because this same website gives the notes as SrgMdNS'- S'NdPMgrS as the arohan and avarohan (the lower and upper case being komal and theevra/shuddha notes respectively) thus omitting "Pa" in the ascent.
  
  Regarding the mood of the song: As it turns out, the situation, in Sriram's own words, is "that of a lovelorn man reflecting on the situation without a very overt display of negativity"....."Just an undercurrent of melancholy". This seems to be generally accepted for this song unless Udhaya, the lyricist of this song, wants to add more. So, my choice of the ragam was perhaps not entirely appropriate as the ragam has the quality of engulfing the listener with sadness and emptiness and not just some underplay of the same.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.31) on: Tue Sep 2 20:55:55 EDT 2003
  
  Perseverence,
  Thanks for the interesting contribution. If you're up for it, you could work with one of the composers or singers from this thread to give your rendition of this or some other lyrics. Just a thought.
  
  Kaumudi,
  Regarding the lyrics. I would rather not box it in with my take on it. Art is best when it's usually up for interpretation by many.
  
  

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