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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Apr 15 01:41:43 EDT 2000
  
  
  varisaya nalu padam flop aana therium answer ... ha ha...
  see the list flops, but he is still around,
  eg; Pavithra, may madam, Mr.Romeo, Iruvar,
  (Infact his second movie was a flop)
  
  but if you note all of the songs went well why?
  also as per your logic of playing slowly recycling etc, take the song SandhKi vantha kile (Siva I think) and MangKuYele...they are same!...I can provide many examples like this....
  
  You are trying to aruge that you can stick a broken chalkpiece with glue..
  
  ; FYKindI: he is a grade student in western classicalmusic, apart from that he has played with shakthi and other music groups, hope you have heard names like Loy mendosa, Zakir hussian, Maclafin, etc, his keyboard playing ability is beyond par,
  
  Arguement endra porvaiyel, please dont write CRAP.
  
  You have asked me why I support arr, simple he gives good music. Period.
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ dyn2-74mcns.ar1.singa.pore.net) on: Sat Apr 15 01:47:09 EDT 2000
  
  Lakshmi Ramanathan,
  
  Before i start, i juz wanna mention that i have great admiration for ARR coz of his musical styles & design.
  
  Sometimes when we wanna analyze things it is very simple. You don't have to go deep. Just need to look at the basics really.
  
  Lets say u hear the song "chinna chinna asai" from Roja for the first time without looking at the credit, who would u say had composed the music?
  
  Well, to me, i would say Ilayaraaja. Why? Well its so simple. You see the maestro's trademark there. For sure, you definitely won't think of MSV or Shankar/Ganesh or Chandrabose leave alone others outside tamil film composers. For sure, you would also not think "wow,this is something new!!" Please don't confuse this "new thing" with the instruments/sysnthesized music that was used. If anybody is gonna deny this then it is very possible that they don't know music nor Ilayaraaja & his music. ARR didn't carve out anything new. Nor did he invent anything new there. I think many ppl would say that that song is by Ilayaraaja before actually looking at the credit.
  
  So, you could say that ARR's first hit is a 'a la Ilayaraaja'. Not to mention the rest of songs in Roja too. Like it or not, that is the very basic fact. You don't really have to look furhter.
  
  As for the BGM in Roja, I heard a lot of The Omen by Jerry Goldsmith.
  
  If the very first movie & the first hit by ARR is so called "inspired" then i'm sure later on things will be get accusational.
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Apr 15 02:03:12 EDT 2000
  
  Mr.Athi,
  
  Anyone who writes against ARR, is subject to
  derogotary remarks in this forum by the (un)biased music lovers and it has become a common
  trend nowadays. And these people frequently
  remind everyone that it is a democratic forum.
  ,
  The above is big white Lie, just go to the below link below, see for your self,
  are there any bad remarks on raja,
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/21924.22:20:06.html
  - No arr fan posts bad about raja in that thread.
  
  Infact you read this thread itself,expect the intial writeup, there are not much against raja.
  
  To make such poor remarks like I want to tell the poor arr fans that he flicks,
  how much of drum loops you know? or
  how much you know about samples and its usage.
  - I say you picked up these jargons here,.
  
  till today have you given one valid,just one valid musical point where arr failed badly.
  
  your posting warrents me to write it in this tone.
  
  
  Black and white, I tell my opion,being a musician
  arr is improving and improved a lot over a period of time, he tunning ablity has improved eg:KandukondenK , chitra and srini song...
  the brigas he places are just wonderful
  some people blindly say it is chitra idea or the performers idea., this cannot be accepted.or it is not true, he just gives room for the artist to improvise a little,
  he does not want his musicians just to paint for pongal with the colors given, he wants them to be an artist...he lets them improvise a little (10%),for that he clearly gives them the credit, no other mds has done this before.
  
  Mr.Athi and Echo
  Tell us one good musical reason that arr is bad,
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Apr 15 02:06:35 EDT 2000
  
  ambleen ,
  
  you definitely won't think of MSV or Shankar/Ganesh or Chandrabose ......
  satheeyama neenga 1980 munadi music ketadhe illai,
  
  
  MSV is way ahead than any md i know in tfm, including raja.
  --- quote from spb's statement, ( also mine.)
  
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ dyn2-74mcns.ar1.singa.pore.net) on: Sat Apr 15 03:54:10 EDT 2000
  
  Dear Srikanth,
  
  I'm not a musicologist. But i can appreciate music juz like everyone.
  
  Well i do not know abt u but i do & have been listening to film music from Max Steiner to Naushaad, from Hans J. Slater to Shanker Jai Kishan, from Korngold to KVM, from GV to Zimmer & from RDB to Agosh.
  
  
  
  let not others' comment justify the quality of music but music itself - quote from me :)
  
  
• From: Neel (@ ts003d12.har-ct.concentric.net) on: Sat Apr 15 09:28:16 EDT 2000
  
  I think we went from music listeners taking shots at ARR to self-proclaimed musicians taking shots at ordinary music listeners.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 63-217-90-105.sdsl.cais.net) on: Sat Apr 15 09:50:15 EDT 2000
  
  Neel:
  "Music listeners" taking pot-shots at ANY MD is what causes "self-proclaimed" musicians from taking pot-shots at them. If ordinary listeners learned to be just that without trying to pass unqualified judgements, "self-proclaimed" musicians would not bother them.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ ws-209-233-228-254.webvangroup.com) on: Sat Apr 15 11:12:24 EDT 2000
  
  srikanth one small correction..... ARR's 2nd movie - a revathy/suresh menon starrer (forgot movie name) was a major hit....
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 63-217-90-105.sdsl.cais.net) on: Sat Apr 15 11:25:25 EDT 2000
  
  sabesan:
  Pudhiya Mugham - bayangara flop !
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Apr 15 11:44:19 EDT 2000
  
  ambleen
  Nice to know you listen more, I am surprized to see that you have compared MSV with SG and chandrabose, that why I came up with such a statement,
  How about adding rajas name in the deva, sirpi, category, World War 3 will begin at once.
  try to hear more of MSV,
  
  Sabesen ; Pudiya Mugam was totally flop, not the songs, arr felt bad and he did not accept next movie from Suresh menon, suresh menon had to go to v.s.narashiman.
  
  
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Apr 15 11:51:22 EDT 2000
  
  Neels,
  The reason I went in that tone with ,Mr. athi and echo was in all the threads they dont have any valid points.
  If they post a valid point (musical or non-musical), I would do what srinaths says,
  ....nothing more, infact I will not care.
  
  btw:self-proclaimed musicians ; London trinity collage are proclaimed me, after completing 9 grades :),
  who or what a is a self proclamined musician?, can you explain, the word does not sound good to me., rather hurts me.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu) on: Sat Apr 15 14:37:37 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth :
  
  I think you are wasting your time by posting replies to people who dont deserve it. I'd like to see more musical, technical and sensible discussions from you, rajay and others. Face the fact - your arguments are NOT going to make Athi or Echo appreciate even anything even remotely nice about ARR. They deliberately want to hang on ONLY to their perceived NEGATIVE points, and want to be completely BLIND to anything positive about ARR. Even after your repeated pleas, they DONT want to discuss anything that's sensibly related to the musical aspects. So why bother repplying to their queries?
  
  Ambleen :
  I'd appreciate if you could let me know what "IR's trademark" you can find in the song "chinna chinna aasai". What aspects of IR's music (trademarks) can you find?? IMO, chinna chinna aasai was a break from the past, it was a simple tune with beautiful lyrics and went on to become one of biggest hits.
  
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: SM (@ pmnat01-p01.sgum.mci.com) on: Sat Apr 15 16:58:08 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth/Srinath,
  
  Please don't glorify some postings here by responding to them. These postings simply don't deserve your responses. DFla ARR pathi eppayumae negative comments pass panradhu oru silarukku kadamai maadhiri aagi pochu. Why do you have to waste time? As Chandy says, these people won't ever try to see the +ve aspects in ARR's music, however hard you try.
  
  Chandy,
  
  I'm also surprised by Ambleen's statement. Although, I am just a ordinary music listener, I didn't find the 'Raja muthirai' in "chinna chinna aasai". It sounded so different. However, some songs which I thought had Raja's trademark and were composed by some other MD was "jaadhi malli poocharamae" and some other songs in "Azhagan" by Maragathamani.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ tide88.microsoft.com) on: Sat Apr 15 23:03:50 EDT 2000
  
  Ambleen
  
  I thought "chinna chinna aasai" hardly had any IR trademark on it. Actually, more than chinna chinna aasai, I found "pudu vellai mazhai" to be VERY different from any of the songs I'd heard till then.
  
  Of course, I haven't listened to majority of IRs songs nor am I a trained musician. So my 2 cents worth expressed above would exactly be that in the world of million dollar TFM opinion ocean.
  
  

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