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RHYTHMS: HAS ANYONE CREATEAD AS MANY AS ILAIYARAJA?

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-wj073.proxy.aol.com) on Tue Oct 27 00:10:58 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is one topic that somehow escaped most of IR fans. I think it is because we have all taken for granted Raja's creativity that weaves in an distinct and unique texture in the form of complex and unbelievable never ever heard before beats or rhythms. I was listening to Senorita, I love you' from Jhani. The exuberance and brilliance of the song's rhythm has left me wondering why and how in the world has such a rhythm never been done by anyone else in the world. What about 'Poongatre Un Per Sollu' in Vetri Vizha, or Vallayosai Kala Kala vena' in Sathya or 'Vanam Kizhey Vandan Yenna' in Thoongathe Thambi Thoongathey. Has anyone of you heard rhythms in these song before and after? Long before the song Muqabla, Mukkala came, IR used the western beat for a song in the mal version of My Dear Kuttichathan. You got to hear that song. There are some now making claims that Mustafa, Mustafa song's beat has been copied by IR in 'Ilavenirkala Panjami' in Manam Virubunthey Unnai. Let us list all the FIRST TIME INVENTED ONLY BY ILAIYARAJA rhythms (I am thinking there at least 500 distinct and new rhythms the only IR is the first in the world to use in his over 4,000 songs) I have not heard any composer who has has the versatility to INVENT more than 2 or more different rhythms for a song. Maybe, there were a few who used the standard heard before type rhythms in a song. So let us start listing. This is one of the facets of IR which has been overshadowed by his stunts with the orchestra and melodic surprises.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kk (@ 172.174.237.247) on: Sun May 13 01:31:43 EDT 2001
  
  Karthi, how abt these songs?
  
  Valli valli ena vanthan ...
  
  Have you heard any similar melody before? Was'nt it surprising. ( I mean similar.. there can me many as good as that ). Sorry to so say, but till IR melody was very textbookish, IR's melodys had much more life.
  
  If you want more listen too,
  
  Nane nana yaro thana..
  Ninai voo oru paravai
  Putham pothu kalai
  Kane kalai mane
  
  How do you think these are inferior to any seniors? What so less surprising?
  
  
• From: kk (@ 172.174.237.247) on: Sun May 13 01:35:06 EDT 2001
  
  I meant till IR came in melodies were textbookish.
  
  I dont mean IR changed it, but by that time trend changed. MSV was making songs songs like Athisaya ragam had better feel.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sun May 13 06:59:28 EDT 2001
  
  Thanks for the info Sabesan....
  
  I think I heard this in a KR interview on TV or something like that...actually IR was giving KR exposure right from "Pandian" (Pandianin Raajiyathil.." to that good number in Avatharam....so it is very likely that KR had given his electronic inputs into the "Oru Kootil.." song...because the beat was not like IR at all at that time...
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.172.24.201) on: Sun May 13 14:00:43 EDT 2001
  
  "How one supports the rhythm with percussions is more important than the rhythm itself" Disagree - the beat and the supporting bass (optionally) should be unique in any song. It does not matter what percussion instrument is being used. Can you ask a rock musician to use tabla ? This novelty in sound is good only for a popular music. When it somes to serious music, you just have to compose something unique again and again. BTW, if you listening to IRs songs, make sure you hear the bass guitar, it is usually recorded very low and so you miss 50% of the rhythm. (Listen to ananda thEn sindhum in maN vAsanai for an eg from among the thousands). BTW, IMO, IR has composed more number of unique rhythms than ANY MD.
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Sun May 13 16:38:55 EDT 2001
  
  Beats with a difference:
  1.Solai poovil aadum thenral
  2. Vennilavu kothipathenna
  3. pattunila vitteduthu
  4. pani vizhum iravu
  and so many others.
  Ilayaraaja does not allow percussion and bass instruments to be very loud. He does not allow it to overtake melody. That is why his unique beats are not instantly noticable. He has given a better vareity of beats than anyone else.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.5.203) on: Mon May 14 06:08:50 EDT 2001
  
  karthi, `thoongAdha vizhigaL reNdu' kEttadhillayA? IMHO, the rhythm of this song's saranam (mAmara ilai mElE, mArgazhippanippOlE, poomagaL madi meedhu uRavAdavA) is one great sample -that is post rAjapArvai...
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Mon May 14 07:56:15 EDT 2001
  
  Come on, Kiru...IR has had a long career..give the new ones a chance too..and BTW music has no limits...
  
  "Can you ask a rock musician to use tabla ? This novelty in sound is good only for a popular music.."
  
  Do you mean to say that IR's music is not popular..?
  
  My only question is when film tech evolves from B&W to Technic colour to today's format and actors like Rajini and Kamal evolve their looks and acting style to suit the times..why is it that only our MD's be it MSV or IR get left behind ?..Maybe it's got to do something with being stuck up !
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Mon May 14 08:20:29 EDT 2001
  
  >>>"When it somes to serious music, you just have to compose something unique again and again."<<<
  
  Try composing something different for 500 years with your lead guitar, bass guitar and drum set...come on music is something more than that...
  I think it was Swami Vivekananda who had said :
  
  "It's good to be born in a Temple, Church or Mosque but bad to die in one."
  
  
  What he meant was that we finally have to outgrow these institutions and live the spirit of them.
  Ultimately we have to break beyond these barriers...serious music or popular music...the divisive line is very thin...a balance can be achieved...like Maniratnam is said to have bridged the gap between Art and Commercial cinema..how will you classify his creation ? As a purist, will you say it is wrong ?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon May 14 15:03:28 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician..you have too much energy and very little patience. Just try to understand what I am trying to say. Dont try to push down your opinion my throat. I am not saying we should not give new MDs a chance. I am just trying to explain what IR has done. If that looks like a lot to you and you think I am putting down new MDs, it is just your own interpretation. I do know the difference popular music and serious music. I am now saying IR was a POP composer, new MDs like ARR have made him a classical composer - Now can you guess/reason why I say this ? I dont want to TELL everything, I want people to do some homework as well.
  
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon May 14 17:03:36 EDT 2001
  
  Sugrutha, you said it right.. The percussion in IRs songs are recorded low. So many people cannot tell the tabla/mridhangam/drums/conga/bongos used in the song. Please listen to 'rAmanin mOganam jAnaki manthiram '..the mridhangam based rhythm is very unique. Actually, I think I like all mridhangam based songs of IR (I even started a thread on it once to collect all the songs in a list).
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.67) on: Mon May 14 23:57:36 EDT 2001
  
  Kiru..I pick on your postings because they are intelligent and have depth :)
  
  And please don't think that I'm trying to shove my opinion down ..I'm just sharing my opinion like you do..you have every right to reject it or tear it to pieces :)
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.68) on: Tue May 15 08:26:34 EDT 2001
  
  BTW..
  
  >>>I am now saying IR was a POP composer, new MDs like ARR have made him a classical composer - <<<
  
  This clearly shows that you don't like the musical trend today....well that's your preference..
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.199.130.144) on: Tue May 15 09:03:01 EDT 2001
  
  as far as rhtyms, RDB AND SALIL C have created as many as ir
  
  
• From: Krk (@ 64.104.128.15) on: Tue May 15 10:31:04 EDT 2001
  
  LV,
  You are right, RDB AND Salil C AND SDB AND LP,
  AK AND Crap AND Crap all added together would have
  created as many as IR.
  
  
• From: lv (@ 203.197.80.70) on: Tue May 15 13:05:12 EDT 2001
  
  sorry krk - they have individually done as much than IR. Salil C has done more in terms of melody. So stop saying CRAP for them. I will not stoop to such a disgustingly low level and talk like that about IR just to prove my point.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue May 15 14:33:31 EDT 2001
  
  LV, This is a Tamil Film Music forum. Isn't there one like this for Hindi ? :(
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue May 15 15:25:52 EDT 2001
  
  I have seen LV post in other threads. Says he knows WCM. Well if really knows, he wouldn't be fighting with us here :)
  
  
• From: Nandi (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Tue May 15 17:46:24 EDT 2001
  
  Why is it that people like LV jump up and beat their chests to announce that whatever IR has done, the MDs in the north have gone one better? Is it some kind of inferiority complex? Or is it that Tamilians who have lived in the north look down upon us? Come on!! I have heard RDB and Salilda and SDB. I personally do not rate RDB as high as the other two. Having said that, Salilda and SDB, though very good, fall a few notches short of IR. They have created as many rhythms as IR?? Well, pal, you must be listening to the beats of a different drummer.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue May 15 23:27:50 EDT 2001
  
  I bought RPG's Gold CD on SDB because I remember reading IR mentioning SDB. To me the songs were really good. To my not so-musical ears it looked like IR really evolved the 'Indian Film Music' genre pioneered by these masters. I can also understand why IR still has high respects for SDB, MSV et. al. If IR considers somebody as his 'guru'/'guide' it is not right to compare them with IR.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Wed May 16 00:32:28 EDT 2001
  
  Thanks Kiru for the email with the in-depth analysis of ARR's music...great work ! Sorry....I think I misunderstood your earlier posting...and took it as against today's TFM when in fact you were discussing IR's rhythm contributions compared to the older directors that we are now spking about in this thread !
  
  
• From: Venkatesh (@ 206.49.102.215) on: Wed May 16 00:44:13 EDT 2001
  
  Kiru,
  
  Can you send me too the ARR's music analysis. I want to learn something. Thanks in advance.
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Wed May 16 03:42:57 EDT 2001
  
  hi Kiru,
  
  Can you share the ARR's music analysis in this forum. It may be more useful. If not possible, can u send me by mail.
  
  Thanks in advance
  
  satsona
  
  
• From: Subbiah (@ 62.255.32.4) on: Wed May 16 04:47:15 EDT 2001
  
  Variety of Thalams :
  IR/other MD's have also used 5 beats, 7 beats and complicated rhythm cycles in many songs.
  
  But recently I listened to a song based on 9 beats (Movie : SollAmallae, MD : Bobby ). Is there any other song like this with 9 beats ?
  
  LV:
  AnnA neenga romba engalai thunba paduthureenga...
  Why are you so particular in doing this 'Hindi Thinippu' in every thread in TFM ? You do not have to prove that you have not lost much by living outside TamilNadu ... So many times we have begged you to start HFM site and discuss about your beloved North Indian music there.
  Engalai mannichu vitturunga... IR/ARR music pathi discuss pannavae engallukku oru jenmam pOthAdhu. Ungal pArvayil nAn kinatru thavalai-Agavae iruppathil - enakku problem illai.
  
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.188) on: Thu May 17 07:33:48 EDT 2001
  
  kiru:
  
  Hai. I am not able to spend more time in this forum now a days. I would like to have your analysis about ARR. Could you please send me one.
  
  Thanx in advance.
  
  

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