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Advantages of composing prewritten lyrics

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 64.136.27.31) on Tue Aug 12 11:51:47 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

While listening to many old songs, the advantages of prewritten lyrics for composers and singers became evident. I will start with two examples and we can add more as we discover them.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.31) on: Fri Aug 22 14:30:11 EDT 2003
  
  rjay,
  I finally heard both the tunes. Quite different renditions, way to go. I think the Sindhu Bairavi one benefits a lot from its length initially. But after repeated hearings, I'm convinced that the tune and music in the Sindhu Bairavi version lend more pathos to the song and give it depth. While the rhythms are still energetic, there's a tinge of sadness that's evident.
  
  In the New Age version the song is a lot closer to western pop in it's arrangement and feel. The drum arrangement and tune are less emotional and distance the singer's mood and subtext from the listener. (I'm sorry if I'm doing the wretched comparison bit here, but the importance of beats to emotion has never been this apparent to me in two versions, that alone makes this effort worthwhile!)
  
  But I bet there's someone out there who enjoys the second version better and most likely with a good reason too. I hope to hear from more people. I didn't mean to scare people off with me previous post. Obviously, if we don't compare and discuss the aspects of each song we won't get anything from it. All I ask is just be fair and gentle.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.31) on: Fri Aug 22 14:37:01 EDT 2003
  
  I forgot the main reason we did this. The preset tune to lyrics (the Sindhu Bairavi version) vs. the preset lyrics to tune (the New Age version).
  
  I think the former version benefits from the mood the composer created and I the writer just picked up on the emotion in that tune and wrote the words. It's important to note that rjay just didn't tune to preexisting lyrics, but tuning differently to the lyrics of another song; it's like fitting a new body into someone else's shirt.
  
  rjay, was it harder than scoring lyrics that weren't written with a tune in mind?
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 22 15:11:04 EDT 2003
  
  I think the New Age version has more space, if you will. I feel, that tune says what the lyrics say. And that tune is good for a night time, virakthi feeling.
  
  On the other hand, the Sindhu bhairavi tune is more sophisticated and intriguing. It is also
  catchy because of the fuller arrangement. Since the arrangement of the New age is not fully developed yet, it may be an unfair comparison! There are also other factors that influence why a listener to prefer it - Sindhu bhairavi is a proven scale and you are more familiar with it and so this melody invokes lots of your past emotional resonances.
  
  My wife's comment was, SB is a better tune, but
  NA suits the lyrics.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 22 15:14:08 EDT 2003
  
  Udhaya, you put a finger on why the Sindhu bhairavi felt intriguing to me. It is a sad scale married with a brisque rythm. Given the same lyrical content and situation, SB singer is more angry whereas the NA guy who is actually depressed.
  
  Reg, is it difficult to tune. No, I actually came up immediately with 6 or 7 equally good tunes, while walking to my computer and catching the 7th one!
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 22 15:52:19 EDT 2003
  
  Radhika, thanks for listening.
  
  Udhaya, I sent mails to your yahoo account a week back and also yesterday before posting here!! What is your correct ID?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.31) on: Fri Aug 22 18:09:00 EDT 2003
  
  rjay,
  my mails have been slow in coming due to a nasty virus and my technical ineptness with filters. Anyway, it has mostly been sorted out. I did get your old mails and the last one you sent got to me today. Since we've been communicating here, I felt it wasn't necessary to write back. But I should've acknowledged your mail, sorry.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Sat Aug 23 13:37:10 EDT 2003
  
  Rjay, I listened to both the versions. First of all I commend you on taking the effort to illustrate the previous discussions. I agree in general with the observations made by others here on these 2 tunes. In both cases the arrangement helps in enhancing the overall listenability of the song and so I really had to avoid being distracted in order to concentrate on just the tune :-)
  
  From the point of view of tune fitting to lyrics and vice versa I feel both the versions score. Udhaya needs to be commended heavily for coming up with excellent lines in the case of the SindhuB tune.The words fit the meter (given by you) snugly and also conveys the pathos touch that the tune has.The tune has instant appeal and a certain flow to it. The scale chosen could be one of the reasons too. Considering the pace of the song, emotion conveyed etc. Devadhai ilam devi comes to mind for comparison.
  
  
  For the New Agish song I see that you have chosen the Chariots of fire/pudhu vellai mazhai-like rhythm.The meter chosen paves the way for stretching all the words a tad in the lines as compared to the previous song and so a singer has more freedom to improvise with brighas etc. I can think of one right away after "yekkam thaana..." in your tune. I like the feel of the song conveyed in part by the orchestration, you should consider developing it fully.
  
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.128.154) on: Sat Aug 23 17:01:29 EDT 2003
  
  rjay,
  
  heard both the versions of ur tune. they were excellent especially the first version reminds me the song 'jodi nadigal' frm the movie 'anbae odi vaa'. IMO ur tune was excellent and in par with IR style of composition and i liked it very much, thx for ur work. keep updating on the other versions ur working.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 172.190.39.226) on: Sun Aug 24 07:47:07 EDT 2003
  
  Great thread and great contributions !!! Thanks for reminding me of the 'pAlirukkum...' song. This song highlights another facet of composing for pre-written lyrics but can remain irritatingly elusive for composers....composing for commas !!! The humming that follows the word pAlirukkum is for the comma. Very tasteful and appropriate. The 'ohO' following 'pasiyurukkAthu' is a humming as well as the listener (the hero here) nodding his head as a result of a new realisation. 'panjaNayil kAtru varum thookkam varAthu' is a presentation of a fact and the tune reflects just that ! The humming in this song has effectively obliterated the natural santham of this santhakkavithai by kaNNadAsan which otherwise is pretty easy to set a tune to. Just follow the santham and lo, you have a tune. Another supreme example of tuning for a comma is 'athhAn ennathhAn'. The tune for this song, as told by Kannadasan was composed in 15 minutes flat. Take a look at the pallavi, 'athhAn' is the introduction of a personality and then a comma, reflected in the tune with a conclusive sustaining note with a gentle shake at the end of the word. 'en athhAn' is an attribute added to the word and the tune takes a wee bit of an upward shift marking some progress in solving the mystery of athhAn :). 'avar ennaithhAn' and a pause for expressing shyness followed by 'eppadi solvEnadi'. Simply out of the world ! And what does the athhAn do ? 'avar kaiyaithhAn, koNdu mellAthhAn, vandu kaNNaithhAn....' with each occurance of the comma followed by a subtle increase in progress of notes within the scale, very apt considering the lyrics and then a pause again for expressing shyness. This feature in particular, the arrangement and the singing quality in this song have all grabbed me by my shirt collar, pulled me up and put me face to face with a musical heaven, now my haven :).
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Sun Aug 24 20:15:00 EDT 2003
  
  SL:
  
  Your contributions have now become rare stuff in DF. ozungaa vandhu ezudhum :-)
  
  I tried my hands on "paadhi raavil" independently. This poem of Udhaya inspired me to make a song in vintage SPB style (though my singing does not really reflect as much of this giant :-) ) It is set in 7 beat based pattern.
  
  http://dhool.com/MS/jam/PaadhiRaavil.mp3
  
  It is a jam version. Unlike all the amateur musicians here, I just have a friend's karoake machine the output of which was encoded in goldwave. Hence please disregard the recording flaws and technical flaws that may bother you.
  Also I have not adhered strongly to the beat since it was just a regular on the fly delivery. Let me know what you guys think.
  
  
• From: Radhika (@ 151.198.143.63) on: Sun Aug 24 21:27:59 EDT 2003
  
  MS
  Absolutely beautiful melody. . Really felt as i was listening to an old melodious SPB song...
  Superb emotionally charged rendition of Udhaya's lyrics!!!!
  Great job!!!
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 138.88.174.249) on: Sun Aug 24 22:49:12 EDT 2003
  
  Ms, very nice melody, you have captured the mood perfectly in the melody.
  Imo
  if this had been a pre written tune , you might not have used the f# note at all, imo the f# note adds the needed mood...looking forward for more...
  :)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Mon Aug 25 09:41:20 EDT 2003
  
  vijay, rajasaranam, thanks for listening.
  
  MS, too bad I have to wait till evening to listen to your version (unless you want to upload PadhiRaavil.doc!)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Mon Aug 25 10:59:14 EDT 2003
  
  I wanted to share another observation here.
  
  The SB tune has the first line ends in a melodic tension (unstable note). The second line resolves it. together they form a pallavi.
  
  Whereas in the NA tune, the first line ends in a stable note, and the second line goes to an unstable note! I observed this after composing.
  
  This weekend I also found a old Tamil film melody which has subconsciously inspired the New Age tune. I am not going to reveal it here!!! If anyone does, he or she gets a five dollar reward!
  Srik, you should be able to do that!!
  
  ;)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Mon Aug 25 11:22:39 EDT 2003
  
  Rjay, I had the same thought while listening to the new age tune. Not quite able to place it but definitely remninded me of a few old songs (Is it Malare malare theriyaadha?)Regarding stable/unstable note, is it just a terminlogy that you are using?Because although intuitively I am able to see what you are saying(while I hum the tune) I was wondering whether there is anything more that one could use to definitively categorize notes like that. I believe I have heard quite a few TFM songs that has that kind of an "incomplete" finish to pallavi's tune but sometimes the instruments provide the fill-in to take it back the the first line
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Mon Aug 25 11:30:50 EDT 2003
  
  Malare Malare is close (same ragam I guess), but there is one closer.
  
  Stable, Unstable - I will get to it later...
  
  Further twist, I wrote different pallavis to the New age tune, to throw another curve at ya!
  
  http://www.geocities.com/rjaymidi/Paarijatha.gif
  
  See which of them fit the NA tune or the SB tune better. I hope to illustrate the fact that lyric writing and tune making are continuums and there are cartloads of choices available in each and together....
  
  
  
  

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