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vm and tms win padmashree

Topic started by barani (@ 64.230.12.105) on Sat Jan 25 16:58:28 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/25padma.htm

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: av (@ 132.216.68.125) on: Thu Jan 30 00:34:41 EST 2003
  
  "JJ was State topper in PUC or something like that"
  
  Prabhu - A good ruler does not have to be a state topper. [Churchill was a secondary school drop-out!] Administrative excellence, man management qualities and honesty are not dependent on academic success. Just to let you know - Dr. Abdul kalaam Azaad is a sound scientific ADMINISTRATOR. India has positively had better scientists than he, speaking of research credentials alone. But we are talking of administrative calibre.
  
  In that respect, JL is no better than Laloo. Laloo looks more uncouth, but JL/MGR is as wicked and corrupt as he.
  
  OISG: Are you sure NI history starts only from 1526 in history textbooks? :-) BTW, there are so many NI politicians (and SI politicians) who are well-educated and sincere too.
  
  I understand your basic anger about TMS being given very paltry recognition. He does deserve the Padmavibhushan for his exemplary singing, just as PS, SJ, MSV, IR,SPB, KJY too deserve the same. I do not deny that. Giving TMS a Padmashree at this stage, is like giving a Bachelor's degree to a person who authored a high-quality doctoral thesis. But to put that point across, one need not demean some of the worthy North Indian artists, or utter generalizations about all Northies being like Laaloo (they clearly aren't). Doing that is not going to fetch TMS his well-deserved awards. People like Sam have to be ignored or else the admin should block his address. It is quite obvious that he doesnt know what he is talking. By repeatedly responding to his junk, we are merely giving him fuel to thrive on. Hope you understand the spirit in which I am saying what I am. If you don't, I have nothing more to add.
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 210.214.4.218) on: Thu Jan 30 03:52:40 EST 2003
  
  BTW, when I tell Northies that I belong to 'TAMIL' Nadu, they in turn triumphantly proclaim that my mother tongue should be Malayalam! And this in Bombay, sposed to be the business capital of India. Pathetic mass of dumbos!
  And I can assure you, Vadivelu's English is preferable anytime to that of Northies.
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Thu Jan 30 04:19:13 EST 2003
  
  Mccaulays, Mintos, Hasting, Hardinges and Clives will be happy to see the forum. The seeds of discontent which they sowed for their good have really taken root and grown.
  Why do you want to reduce everything into a north South divide? ( This also conveniently forgets the east West of it!!)
  let us take the best of both worlds Our dosai for their aaloo parota( Bharathiyar said as much!!)
  People from South come better prepared and are probably more coherent in putting their thoughts in a debate wheras guys from up North believe in strong arm tactics.
  But as I said in my earlier post, award lists per se cannot satisy everybody.However if you give a Padmasree to TMS today it can be construed as an insult. It is like giving Dhyan Chand an arjuna award now.
  But OISG and other south groupies,take heart all is not well there too. That is why Ravi Shankar Sitar ) or Amjad Ali Khan gets more awards than Vilayat Ali Khanor Dagar bros. PR too helps. you can invent Raags, priyadarshini, anoka atal etc to achieve your goals.
  One last point Bhupen Hazarika or Ashok Kumar getting D S Phalke award before Sivaji what do you make of it. I take it as a big joke.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Jan 30 06:05:06 EST 2003
  
  Vengayam
  
  It is not just awards which is point if issue.It is the outlook in general.
  
  You may feel that TMS should have got it long back.But the committe which decides theses awards(again predominantly comprising of NI) think that they are doing a favour to south.Naam "joke" endru ehtu pondra forum gaLil kathikkondriuppom.
  
  Our mentality (rightly captured by Sujatha in "Indian") is "I shall write to "THE HINDU".But these type of step-motherly treatments continue unabated.
  
  We have received "Aloo parathas" and built even temples.They too have have recieved "Idlis" in plenty.But the trouble is they have refused to distinguish between Idlis and human beings.(sekkukkum Siva lingathirkum vidhyasam theriyathavargaL)
  
  Mccaulay ....was he wrong?
  
  I feel that he is a visonary.He knew where to build and what to build for the long run!
  
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.115.31.67) on: Thu Jan 30 06:41:10 EST 2003
  
  >>>But the committe which decides theses awards(again predominantly comprising of NI) think that they are doing a favour to south.Naam "joke" endru ehtu pondra forum gaLil kathikkondriuppom.
  
  Precisely the point. Even IR could get NA only when BM was there in the jury. If not for him then even IR would have been rejected. There are many more films which I feel he should have got..but now its all over, neither he and nor the jury are in a position for that.
  
  I have an idea. The govt should atleast name these awards on these artists names. Like The best acting award is given after Sivaji's name.
  Sayt best Playback singer (TN govt) can give it inb TMS or PS name.
  Best MD award can be names after naushad, KVM, MSV or even IR.
  By doing this atleast we can make these names visible to the next generation. For this we need statesman..But we have only politicians...So as long as they are there these things will be there for ever.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 68.155.228.52) on: Thu Jan 30 07:20:00 EST 2003
  
  AY - is there any awards in the persons u have listed in TN ???
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) on: Thu Jan 30 08:33:48 EST 2003
  
  very well said, vengayam.
  This is not the forum to discuss & deplore NIs bias against SI. even if it is, there is, there is no one other than AV to debate against in a healthy manner. (I don't count Sam. I think he is a tamilian himself & gives all his crap just to have some stupid fun)
  
  anyway, one of the solutions to this national award problem is to institute an large academy of sorts whose diverse members can vote for certain nominations, a la oscar. the members can be a kitchadi group (like our ruling coalitions) of eminent personalities from all walks of life from all parts of India.
  AY, nice idea. but there are more deserving persons than awards!! what to do?
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) on: Thu Jan 30 08:35:05 EST 2003
  
  pls. forgive the grammatical mess & typos.
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 210.214.4.99) on: Thu Jan 30 10:20:46 EST 2003
  
  Was browsing thru a book "World Music : Rough Guide Vol 2". Here it is
  http://www.roughguides.com/store/details.html?ProductID=254
  
  This is what the authors have compiled from various sources:
  
  "Though Rafi is arguably believed to have sung over 35000 songs, Raju Bharatan in his study of film music says the no of songs recorded between 1931-1991 is only 50000. Lata has done 5750 and Asha 7250 while a massive ten-thousand plus has been crossed by male vocalist Sunil Gavaskar."
  
  Yayaya...dont jump at me, this is what the authors have written, Sathiyama solren..if u dont believe me, buy the book and (dis)believe it for yourself :)
  
  High time we stopped depending on northies and equally incompetent westerners to okay our art forms.
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.181.155) on: Thu Jan 30 11:17:13 EST 2003
  
  my 2 cents
  its not just of question of north indians. every indian who does not hail from the 4 southern states doesnt think too much about them. Initially. I think the main reason is ignorance, for whatever reasons. We south indians, I think mostly thambis and gults, take a lot of effort in knowing so much about the rest of the country and people and culture and films and what not, so when we find that its not reciprocated we feel let down big time.
  
  As far as number of south indians in silicon valley goes, all i can say is that you should first count the number of north indians standing along the borders.
  
  
  
• From: av (@ 132.216.68.101) on: Thu Jan 30 12:46:43 EST 2003
  
  The above extract by RB is correct. The number of songs sung by LM,AB, Rafi were first counted by one M Vishwas Nerurkar of Mumbai. He has published books containing the first line and pstats of each and every song they have sung. Rafi has sung about 5000, Lata about 7,000 and Asha about 11,000 songs. Strangely these singers have never claimed to have sung more than 10,000 songs at all. It is our incompetent journalists who have done that.
  [Earlier RB had himself exaggerated the number of songs by the legends to be of the order of 20,000. It is his typical filthy, lowly and cowardly attitude to conveniently forget about it. He is one idiot who filled his stomach by spreading rumours about love affairs and the like, and vomitting out unsubstantiated drivel from time to time, whether about cricket or music. His opinions keep making 180 degree shifts every alternate day.]
  
  If someone counts the no of songs sung by SPB, we shall also see how little truth there is in that 40,000 figure he (or some of his unobjective fans) claims/claim. Same for KJY and others.
  [it is impossible to sing 40,000 songs in 30 years. Even if he recorded one song EVERY day, we get 30 * 365 = 10,950. As if he never took a holiday? Or wasnt away on concert tour. To sing for Shankarabharanam, SPB has admitted to have done one month of practice day in and day out.]
  But for that such a book has to be first published here!
  
  We nevertheless enjoy singers for their quality output and not quantity. It is impossible to keep 40,000 songs in one's mind anwyay. As someone else had pointed out on some other thread, Shakespeare did not write 50,000 poems in his life to be considered great. And Einstein did not author 50,000 papers either.
  
  "As far as number of south indians in silicon valley goes, all i can say is that you should first count the number of north indians standing along the borders."
  
  Valid point! Especially the Punjabis and the Gurkhas, I would say.
  
  
• From: av (@ 132.216.68.101) on: Thu Jan 30 12:49:39 EST 2003
  
  s0:
  "there is no one other than AV to debate against in a healthy manner"
  
  Thanks that you have atleast understood the import of what I am saying. Nonetheless, let me point out, I am not arguing "against" anyone or any ethnic group here. I like people if they are "pro-south", but I would hate someone who is "anti-north". I hope you understand what this means.
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) on: Thu Jan 30 14:59:44 EST 2003
  
  "We south indians, I think mostly thambis and gults, take a lot of effort..."
  sarat : that is not entirely true. how much do we really know about the North-east for example? it could've very well been in China.
  we know a lot about other cultures, films etc.. only because we are exposed to them a lot and have come to accept them as entertainment & educational. In fact, our reputation is just the opposite. my NI friends point out the anti-Hindi protests, my kannadiga friends point out the Bangalore Tamils' lack of respect for kannadiga culture. I do not agree with them, but unfortunately that is what our reputation is.
  
  av: I know your position in the argument. have always been an admirer of the interest that you show in SI music.
  
  
• From: naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Thu Jan 30 16:00:24 EST 2003
  
  
  
  Here's something to ponder:
  
  "Earlier RB had himself exaggerated the number of songs by the legends to be of the order of 20,000. It is his typical filthy, lowly and cowardly attitude to conveniently forget about it. He is one idiot who filled his stomach by spreading rumours about love affairs and the like, and vomitting out unsubstantiated drivel from time to time, whether about cricket or music. His opinions keep making 180 degree shifts every alternate day."
  
  Just out of curiosity, what are the credentials of the person who makes and posts this claim? How many books, essays, research papers and monographs has this person published on cinema/music/arts for this libel to have any validity? Is this their measure of rational engagement?
  Not that one has to gobble up anything and everything that is written by RB or anybody else, but for a counter-spin to have any merit it should not only have the rigor of scholarship, it should also demonstrate imperical veracity. RB, whether one agrees or disagrees with his thesis, has proven time and again that he is a nonpartisan journalist who backs his words with ample research and historical detail.
  Debate his exegesis all you want, but please do so with the backing of incontrovertible facts and evidence (and if there is none, then keeping your thoughts to yourself might be a wise move.)
  Otherwise, as the above quote makes clear, it is more an exercise in verbosity and poor rhetoric, and less an example of research or true relevance.
  
  

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