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B G M - Eternal Myths!

Topic started by OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on Tue Aug 27 11:45:05 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Can any HCIRF please enlighten this poor soul?



1.How many movies have run simply because of IRs rerecording?
2.Has he managed any recognition at the state,national,Asian,international levels for his BGM ?
3.Has he won any awards (say like Filmfare,Zee ,IIFA etc ) for his BGM?( i hear Adhesh Srivatsava won a Filmfare or Zee award for his BGM in "Border")
4.Who would you rate as the other good BGM scorers at the national ,international levels? (apart from the staple answer "Nobody")-[This is just to determine where he stands vis-a-vis "Them"]
5.Why is he not getting offers to score BGM for Hollywood movies when his credentials are extraordinary as per your judgement?

6.Are there any awards instituted by our govenments for BGM ...like the ones for special effects,editing?If they exist has he won anything?If it does not why don tyou guys make a representation to the government?(But if the Governement accepts your representation and gives the award to some other MDs .....)

7.Mention some scenes wherein without his BGM the scene would have fallen flat pulling down the whole movie.

8.Are there any movies by other MDs in which the BGM was ...say..Ok!?
I shall request all non-IR fans not to post in this thread.Lets listen!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 133.145.164.4) on: Wed Aug 28 09:17:34 EDT 2002
  
  OISG,
  Come on Sire, considering your excellent grasp of the intricacies involved in cinema and music, some of the points raised by you are not necessary(or atleast could have been re-worded :))
  
  Regarding Pts 2,3 that awards or recognition alone cant measure an artist's calibre is well known. George Best never played in a World Cup :)
  
  "IR has not got the recognition he deserved. I remember how his BGM for the last scenes of Kadalora Kavithaigal spoke everything frame by frame without the dialogues.... "
  
  Bulls Eye!! Just a couple of weeks ago, I was watching Kadalora Kavithaigal on Jaya TV(from the song Poguthe Poguthe onwards). My room-mate who is a Bengali(obviously no knowledge of Tamil) joined in, and after some time exclaimed that North Indians have missed out on enjoying the compositions of an amazing composer(IR)!
  
  Yups, there may be some undesirable stuff dished out by HCIRFs. But some of your points seem like putting down an MD who's got very little left to prove, much less in the realm of BGM!
  
  "ARR is a current acct, IR is a fixed deposit".
  -Hope you enjoyed that one, for various reasons!! :))))))))
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed Aug 28 09:39:28 EDT 2002
  
  Your promise to send a detailed mail ? What happened?
  
  
  <<"ARR is a current acct, IR is a fixed deposit".
  >>
  Good!Inferred a different meaning as well!Already things are boiling !Vendam!
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.44.163) on: Wed Aug 28 10:07:50 EDT 2002
  
  OISG .. you know why people didn't want to answer your questions by questions. This is why. Your totally irrelevant topics. Nobody claimed IR is the world's best BGM scorer. But in TFM he is the best BGM scorer. What is the point in knowing about hollywood composers? Is there any logic to it? France, Italy, England, USA they all have their own group of composers. They excel in their own area. Everybody has got their own traditional music. They excel in it. IR is excelling in his traditional music.
  
  Your analogy of VBchandrasekar sucks. You are comparing him with IR. For MSV-IR comparison you portaryed MSV as Bradman and IR as tendulkar. For BGM concepts you portarayed him as VB chandrasekar. Enna amatuerthanamana logic. If you don't know how to argue your points go read other forums and come back mr.senguttuvan(OISG).
  
  IR has achieved so much that you and i can only dream of mr.senguttuvan(OISG). For people like i should mention only 815 movies.. Don't you think it is hard to count and exactly give the number.. Because his BGMs were successful in so many movies.
  
  1) 16 vayadinile
  2) Kadalora Kaivhtaigal
  3) Poove Poochudava
  4) Varusham 16
  5) Mouna Raagam
  6) Salangai Oli
  7) Sippikkul Muthu
  8) Thendrale Ennai Thodu
  9) Mudhal Mariyathai
  10) Sindhu Bhairavi
  11) Pudhiya Varppugal
  12) Niram Maratha Pookkal
  13) Karagattakaran1
  14) Idhaythai Thirudathe
  15) Anjali
  16) Udhaya Geetham
  17) Man Vaasanai
  18) Naan Paadum Paadal
  19) Payanangal Mudivathillai
  20) Kadhalukku Mariyathai
  21) Agni Natchatiram
  22) Nayagan
  23) Sakalakala Vallavan
  24) Thoongathe Thambi Thoongathe
  25) ........
  
  If i keep going there is no end to this list..
  That's why i didn't do that. I have better things to do other than counting best BGM movies of IR for one crazy guy out of the billion people in this world.
  
  By saying International field.. i don't know what you mean. You mean hollywood? India is the biggest movie industry in the world. Apart from the quality of the movies we make in what way we are inferior.. Your cheap mind has been exposed when you said he was flying high in 1988-92.. he was right at the top from the beginning until his sons started taking assignments..
  
  Ya right all directors go to ARR and others notb ecause they are good. But because they were fighting. That explains a lot why MR movies failed on a consistent basis... whose movies with IR never failed except in Idhaya Kovil till that day. If at all it ran for 100 days it was because of IR.
  
  Iruvar
  Thiruda Thiruda
  Kannathil Muthamittal
  Uyire
  May Maadham (Maniratnam production. After that he switched over to other M.Ds for his production movies. example. Dum Dum Dum)
  
  He neither scores BGM nor scores fast enough. Then what one earth he is going with so much time available for him. Luck struck him in the form of MR-IR break up. If they had not broken up he would still be delivering "Jingles" album.
  It is MR who shaped ARR's career. But IR helped shaping MR's career. If only Mouna Raagam lost the BGM of IR.. i am 100% sure that would have been a flop. There is no question about that. Each and every scene in that movie i always associate with the music. If you hate IR because i am a HCIRF.. i do not care.. IR can survive with out OISG. He is a god's given gift to TFM.
  815... movies.. This is what you get when you ask a question for which you know the answer. You don't know how to argue.. Without help of your fellow ARR fans you are a child.
  
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Wed Aug 28 10:33:41 EDT 2002
  
  OISG
  
  ""Verum BGM mattum oru padathai thangum enbathu ....If someone who is successful in the cinefield say this i take back all my words. ""
  
  
  I already gave an example ( about Vamsy a successful director in telugu ). Go back to my posting.
  
  Would you take back all your words :-)
  
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.62) on: Wed Aug 28 11:02:15 EDT 2002
  
  NCR his whole aim is to somehow or the other prove either one of the following
  
  
  BGMs are not important to movies
  
  or
  
  IR is not a good BGM scorer..
  
  Sadly he is failing in both.. I already told..
  
  "Vadathukku marundu undu Vidanda Vadathukku marundu illannu"
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 63.72.253.11) on: Wed Aug 28 11:05:57 EDT 2002
  
  Awe,
  
  "If only Mouna Raagam lost the BGM of IR.. i am 100% sure that would have been a flop. "
  
  I would not totally agree to it. MR had a very good story line, a wonderful script. IR DID greatly enhance the movie with his BGM. But i would not go to the extent of saying it would have been a flop. This is totally my personal opinion. I aint start a dispute with nobody.
  
  I would consider, that MattuPayan "GRAMARAJAN" was all coz of IR and only IR or for the matter of fact all SANGALIMURUGANS productions. I would not surely compare the success with MR.
  I have been a loyal fan of IR for a very long time, but still a more fan of GOOD MUSIC
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.59.246) on: Wed Aug 28 11:09:18 EDT 2002
  
  Music life.. Mouna Raagam was a slow paced movie.
  It might have done well in A center without those BGM. But not so well. But to do well in all centers, IR music was much needed. There is only a fine line between a Flop and success. IR helped MR crossed well over that line.
  
  
• From: Thiru (@ 63.169.243.35) on: Wed Aug 28 11:19:04 EDT 2002
  
  Nagas,
  I agree with some of your points not all of them though... IR BGM is great and everyone knows that but ppl trying to sell his BGM to the extent that movies run because of BGM doesnt seem to be the right argument... Music fans like us might watch a movie just because of BGM, but does a kuppusamy or ramasamy worry about BGM when he goes to a movie... I accept that in many scenes, BGM plays a part in the movie but I dont think a normal movie would be a hit just because of BGM score.. Instead it just adds value to the movie... Has any movie flopped because of a bad BGM score?? BGM in thriller or adventure movies always add to the existing suspense in the movie.... Similarly action movies need the fast music in that movie to keep up with pace... It's easier to score BGM for these sort of movies.. It's tougher to score BGM for slow movies.... a perfect example for this is 'Scent of a woman'... the bgm work was great in that movie.. Nayagan BGM was excellent and so were a lot of slow movies with IR BGM.... but IR himself has repeated his pieces of BGM's for his movies...Mouna raagam's bgm was one of my favourites but when I heard flashdance in i2fs site, I had a question about the originality.....If u look at certain comedy BGM's of IR u can see the repetition of 'mamavukku kuduma kuduma'.. or a revised version of the same....
  Mahesh's BGM was good in Nammavar as well as kurudhi punal..... Vikatan and kumudam reviewers have created an image that ARR is always bad in the BGM... I dont go by vikatan's or kumudam's review..... Ppl always talk about just Roja when it comes to ARR's bgm..... Thiruda thiruda had a great BGM score and so did Duet.....Till 2000, most of the satellite channels used ARR's bgm from indian, pudhiya mannargal, muthu , mudhalvan etc for their programmes... are they not considered as BGM scores? Good BGM doesnt mean that its for sad scenes only......I would like to quote an example... In bombay when aravind swamy sees manisha in his house from the 1st floor thro the stairs, there would be a hindustani piece....... thats a brilliant BGM.... but it was not a sad scene.....and it made an impact on the scene.......
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.59.246) on: Wed Aug 28 11:54:46 EDT 2002
  
  http://www.telugucinema.net/foru/meku/
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Wed Aug 28 12:17:12 EDT 2002
  
  OISG
  I want to provide an explanation for your question regarding IR's BGM being known internationally.
  
  Now since in those days BGMs were never sold as separate audio tapes, very few people who haven't seen the movie would have known anything about the BGM in that particular movie. Since people north of Andhra/Karnataka were not aware of/seen any of the movies that IR provided music for, there is not a chance that they know anything about the BGM in our movies here.
  
  So if the knowledge about IR's BGM hasn't even crossed the Vindhyas, how do you expect it to go beyond that - internationally? Had the BGMs been released as separate audio tapes, then maybe he would have had offers internationally!
  
  Also as people are continuously pointing out, BGM score, unlike Hollywood movies, was never recognized in India. Only now they have started doing that.
  
  In ARR's case, he had the wonderful opportunity of scoring music for numerous Hindi movies and as such instantly recognized by international music pundits. My feeling is, if anyone wishes to deal with anything Indian, they always first look at what's going on in Hindi, not at Telugu or Tamil.
  
  As to how one would rate it compared to international music: Just take a listen to the soundtracks of let's say Lion King, Signs, etc etc. In my opinion, I sometimes even felt (this is absolutely true!!) that had this scene been given to IR, he would have created some magical music for it. I know this opinion is very subjective and personal.
  
  With regards to question 7: If you get a chance please listen to the BGMs in Sagarasangamam (salangai oli) when Kamal realizes that he is going to be one of the performers in the dance festival - boy, I feel very emotional everytime I watch that scene. How about Bhanupriya's "Swarnakamalam"? The scene where she realizes that she was responsible for her father's death! These are a just a couple I can remember immediately. I bet these scenes will fall flat without that BGM.
  
  Bottomline: There is no meaning in gauging an artist's talent by merely looking at the awards resume. Public recognition and talent don't necessarily go together with so much cheap politics, corruption and redtape in our country.
  
  
• From: !@$ (@ 199.50.29.40) on: Wed Aug 28 12:32:30 EDT 2002
  
  http://www.kumudam.com/therinthadu/t-matum-21.html
  
  

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