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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 165.122.128.173) on: Wed Mar 13 15:11:35 EST 2002
  
  Karthik S,
  regd. "mElla mElla": I second Prabhu Das's thoughts. bcos i remember the tune with solo violin and a female singer humming the tune with few lyrics. It was much more soothing (probably had hand clappings too!) The sample u have (thanks a lot btw!) has percussions that i don't remember. Also, had the female voice been PS I would have remembered it as PS's and not just as a female voice:) Moreover, we moved to a new place in 1983 and i had not heard it since then i.e., until ur link now. Pallavi Anupallavi was released in 1983 and i guess the tune that i remember is probably from that movie (i have seen it twice for its musical content and MR but surprisingly don't remember it as being from that). It would be better to make sure if it is from Pallavi Anupallavi or not.
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 198.23.5.11) on: Wed Mar 13 15:17:46 EST 2002
  
  Vazipokan:
  This will lead to Music becoming a crime exhibit and listeners becomeg Sherlockhomes
  
  Nice analogy. It is infact a crime exhibit. I would paraphrase the above sentence as "Nowadays, Music has become a crime exihibit that we need shelockhomes listeners" :-)
  
  I discount this coincendental-7-note-mathemitcal-notion. If that is case there should multiple winners for every 7 number lottery drawing in this planet. we know that for most case there is no winner for millions of buyers. If that is the mathematical case then how come 2 musicians very sitting miles apart hit exact 7 notes with the same arrangement. Its like the 64 square chess board and grain story. When we talk about number we really don't know what we are talking about. (Any Numerologists here!)
  
  Then, What might be case for the coindence?. The answer is more at intellectual and instituitionalized thinking level rather than at the mathematical level. Also, they might have heard the song or its derivative when they were young or years back and suddenly dawns out in different form out of their musical gymnastics.
  So we call it exactly the way we should call it "Inspiration". When you too aware of the area you are working on and being professional in it it is absurd to call it a "coincidence". But we are not bothered abt "inpiration" and "coincdence". We are just trying to find it. But we definetly don't like is total rip-off and be pretentious about it. Karthik rightly categorized as -- Inspiration, coincdence and copy and his doing a great job and we should move on with this thread agenda and also help him in his quest.
  
  Lastly, This thread is indeed for Music-Sherlock Holmes :-).
  
  Karthik may be you should put one more discalimer in your site saying "This way of listening is not advised to normal listener and should not be tried when you are listening to music". :-)
  
  Wwwwhat?--Loop music!!!
  NaNbaN
  
  
• From: Aswathama (@ 204.160.32.13) on: Wed Mar 13 16:13:24 EST 2002
  
  Karthik:
  
  Please hear Swasame and Ek Ladki songs and let us know whether its an inspiration or not.
  
  Thanks
  
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Wed Mar 13 16:14:01 EST 2002
  
  I personally think they is an inherent pattern in what we consider "good" and "enjoyable" music is, in contrast to what is called "iraichchal" or noise. It is not as random as a permutation of numbers in a lottery, and hence I feel the probability of one-ness of thought (and notes) among two musicians separated by time and space is not very low. Anyway, I'll shut-up on this abstact matter before I stop making sense to myself.
  I don't think Ennadi Meenakshi sounding similar to the other song is a case of inspiration. It is reflective of the whole genre - disco. On similar lines, I always felt that almost all songs in a particular genre (especially blues and Elvis-style Jailhouse-rock rock&roll) sound similar - sort of a one-tune genre!!
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Mar 13 16:38:06 EST 2002
  
  vijay,
  
  thanks for the "satisfied" song. i am enjoying it thoroughly. (i dont find any resemblance to ennadi mInAtchi; also, i dont remember ennadi mInAtchi that much :-) )
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Wed Mar 13 16:44:17 EST 2002
  
  Songs that I think sound like the "satisfied" song
  1. Another one bites the dust by Queen
  2. Some parts of "Staying Alive" - I don't remember
  3. This song comes in a few Hollywood OSTs. It is also the beginning bit of "Aaya Onnu" in Ninaivirukkum varai by our Venerable Deva. The song is a music bit ending with someone shouting "Tequila"
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Wed Mar 13 17:07:47 EST 2002
  
  hihi:-), listen to the portions that I specified, its quite obvious..BTW, if you dont remember the tamil song I dont expect you to identify the similiarity :-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Wed Mar 13 17:12:43 EST 2002
  
  "I don't think Ennadi Meenakshi sounding similar to the other song is a case of inspiration"
  
  s0, so atleast you agree that they sound similiar, that's a good start :-) what is subjective is whether the similiarity is good enough to be called an inspitaion or not, but what is NOT subjective is the similiarity itself :-)
  
  "Another one bites the Dust" is not quite similiar
  to this song and I am pretty sure "Staying Alive" by BeeGees is not too
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed Mar 13 18:21:44 EST 2002
  
  to put all ur arguments in a nutshell.. "music is a crime and we all r sherlock holmes" is a mis-interpretation of inspiration.
  
  if M.S read physics in 12th std from NCERT book. And then in his Ph.D if he used some of the knowledge gained from that book to put an IEEE paper. would you brand M.S a plagiarizer.
  
  no! certainly NO! if thats true what all we do is based on some books we learnt from.. we are expanding our knowledge and that is what is termed as innovation.
  
  so if IR actually listened to any of the "source" songs mentioned and composed his songs.. its not wrong. IR just is expanding his knowledge by listening to those songs.. its a copy only if nothing new has been added and the "source" simply reproduced. that is not the case here..
  
  I just used M.S'a name..just for example sake...summa irukara M.S'a oodhi kedukala :-)
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.92.5) on: Wed Mar 13 18:50:29 EST 2002
  
  vijay, I did not mean that they are the similar note for note. But these songs (and a few other disco numbers - I'm sorry for not being specific. I lay the blame on the whole genre) sound similar to each other. I don't know if its the actual notes or their meter-structure or the same raga.
  
  
  as you say, lets just agree to disagree.:) or I'll have to consult an ENT.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Mar 13 21:07:26 EST 2002
  
  vijay..I think you have a point. Those 5 ot 6 notes seem to be the 'refrain' of the instrumentalists in this song. IR seems to have composed the whole song using this 'refrain'. This is not very unlikely, because you once you mention a ragam (< 7 notes) he can churn out a song in no time. Add to that, he is not the kind of guy who flicks just rhythms or tunes..he is watching for chord progressions too. OIt is quite possible an interesting progression from some where that stays in his mind might show up into a full fledged song. This is a really good find and I think is a very tasteful inspiration too (ha..somebody is going to accuse me of being a HCIRF (or not ?) :))
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Wed Mar 13 21:08:24 EST 2002
  
  bharaththu..vaalai surutti vechchukkave mudiyaahda ? :-)
  
  
• From: haris (@ 148.87.1.171) on: Wed Mar 13 21:35:20 EST 2002
  
  vijay- 'ennadi meenakshi' is i think a good e.g. for inspiration. i sure IR has real 'asai pOttufied' ( cud chewed) that small underlying bit and has come out with the song. Good catch by both vijay and IR.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Mar 13 22:03:49 EST 2002
  
  MS:
  
  That mallu version of 'aasai adhigam vechu' is a fantastic piece of inspiration - albeit way too apparent for us! Its in many such (as in dvorak-chittukuruvi) coincidental instances that I think I get to know IR better...about the way his incredible mind works. RDB is another composer of that range (not counting his few direct lifts, of course)...If I'm allowed to digress a bit on that...try listening to RDB's version of Procol Harum's 'A whiter shade of pale'...RDB 'adapted' in his movie Manzil...and you'd see that RDB has not lifted the tune per se and derived inspiration out of a mere prelude! Its such places where I think I can picture RDB working in his studio and enjoying what he does, so cleverly. Its a very beautiful inspiration - one which I love quoting every time I have a chance to!
  
  But I conclude every entry not as 'ithai kettu ithu vanthirukirathu' but as 'ithai kettu ithu vanthirukalaam'. I put forward a suggestion which I think makes sense to me. Finally its upto the site's visitor to decide whether there's an inspiration or not. (This does not include blatant copies of course - such lifts do not interest me at all nowadays - they're getting on my nerves).
  
  But getting deep into a beautiful inspiration like that of dvorak and chittukuruvi is something of an eye opener. Only IR can finally say 'I did' or 'I didnt' - get inspired. I just assumed that since IR's love for WCM is well known he'd have been naturally exposed to a lot of WCM and it's bound to take shape in an Indian format in his mind. Frankly my site merely extrapolates such instances...its more of a guesswork...its beyond the scope of the site to prove anything 'beyond doubt'. But yes some of my words do make it look like an accusation. But I consciously try to avoid such conclusive comments and try leaving it open to judgement.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Mar 13 22:05:56 EST 2002
  
  NaNbaN:
  
  Your 7 number lottery analogy was very apt. But being terribly weak in my maths, I still I'm trying to figure out the connection between that and the 7 notes in music....It sure makes to me on some level...just trying to find that level!
  
  :-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Wed Mar 13 22:10:09 EST 2002
  
  Kiru and Haris, good to see you share the same observation as mine..finally someone agreeing with me on this :-)
  
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Mar 14 01:42:13 EST 2002
  
  Vijay:
  
  As of now lets agree to disagree :-)
  
  BTW, could you give me the details of this song...singer/album/exact song name anything...let me look out for this song's versions and try getting a version which might convince me...
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Mar 14 01:55:00 EST 2002
  
  Remember reading in the vikatan review that Pasumpon's 'adi aathi' number was inspired by the WC piece 'flight of the bumble bee'....I've hrd FOTBB but not the Pasumpon number...any place where I can listen to it?
  
  Is it really an inspiration?
  
  

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