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ARR's plagiarism--tamilians are not dumb.

Topic started by R.BALAJI (@ 129.130.140.38) on Mon Jun 8 21:27:56 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi guys,
I am going to india soon.If you want to show your disapproval against ARR's plagiarism please do reply to this new thread which I will eventually print and give it to ARR personally so that he realises that people are not dumb and listen to his fancy copying of music from abroad and boast himself as a musician.
Even his latest much talked "Vande matram" has one songs which has direct lift of a tune from Madonna's latest "FROZEN".
I don't know how he thinks that he can get away with these fancy copying.I think it is time for us to show him that we are not dumb.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Fri Jun 12 11:09:26 EDT 1998
  
  Amaidhi!! Amaidhi !! Vellai kodi parakkattum!!
  
  Let passion not be replaced by insanity - a quotable quote from TFM's DF.
  
  Dear Srikanth,
  
  Do you remember me ? I am Madhan, one "ex- fighter" of yours in DF - I was going through your thread on Music Scales - yabbaa, sathhiyamaa, there are not many in our DF who can understand much of it. But HATS OFF to your sincere attempts - but it is my equally sincere request that you make the contributions accessible to laymen like me - Sorry for the digression.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Fri Jun 12 12:46:00 EDT 1998
  
  hmm.. I am considering banning all threads that mention both ARR and IR.. I am only half joking. :).
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Fri Jun 12 12:49:30 EDT 1998
  
  On a serious note: This thread IS about ARR. ARR has been singled out here. If someone wants to protest that, they should start a separate thread, say 'Why ARR, all MDs (including IR) have copied". Or something like ARR's contribution to TFM. etc... IR fans shoudl then refrain from dragging IR into the second topic. I hope people will consider this seriously.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Fri Jun 12 14:13:15 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Ravi ,
  I know you are pointing at me.
  How do you want to express my ideas.
  - just open a new thread to say ARR alone did not copy - Every one does... This topic blames ARR without any valid reason.
  VM was recorded much much before madonaa's album. You should have removed the thread at that time itself - because it a incorrect information abusing ARR.
  
  IR issues come up because some people worship him so they are not able to bear if any one compares him. Raja is also in TFM he will be compared by public. , we need a scale to evaluate a person. Raja is the best scale we all tfm guys knows. he has done many new things
  for us to talk about
  
  Also, Few people were taking a personal toll on me.
  Where were you then.
  
  I have a valid point - it is not right to call on ARR alone , blame every one. If you think what I saying is wrong - go ahead use your POWER to kill this thread or my comments.
  
  an upset.
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Fri Jun 12 14:23:02 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth: I really don't like the way this thread is developing. If I want to use my POWER I could have killed any response I wanted to from this thread. I was absent for a whole day, that was when the recent deplorable shots at you were taken. I felt that they have been enough repudiated by other DF-ers and that removing the original comment would mean that I have to edit a major portion of the thread. I am not condoning personal attacks at all. I have repeatedly asked people to refrain from personal attacks. Regarding the factually incorrect info provided by Balaji, a lot of people responded to it pointing out his mistake. There was enough scope for the discussion to continue even disregarding his information. Thats why I let the thread stay. My previous post was to point out that topic purity shoudl be maintained regardless of how disagreeable the topic is. Unless I point it out in this context, I cannot step in in other cases. I try to do a fair job of editing, without singling out any one person.
  If you feel otherwise write to me and I'll either explain my decisions or correct myself.
  
  
• From: MPR (@ lc01.cc.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Fri Jun 12 14:36:59 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  
  Come on, cool down. We all know the
  purpose of this thread. For those of
  you who was upset about just blaming
  ARR alone, there was a thread dedicated
  to IR's copying called 'IR copy adiththa
  paadalgal' started by Rajaraman. intha
  threadin nokkam ARR copy adiththArA illayA, enbuthuthAnE ozhiya ARR muttum thAn copy
  adikkirArA enbathalla.
  
  One more thing, if you don't remember, you
  started a thread 'Copied songs in TFM'. That
  is the right place to compare all MDs including
  Raaja. Why don't we go there and discuss
  about this copy business there? this is just
  a opinion.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ unknown-128-46.beasys.com) on: Fri Jun 12 14:54:04 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth
  Dont be too upset,some of us at least are with you.All that name-calling is just too puerile to get riled up about.Btw can you please give me the address of your web-site?
  
  Udhaya
  Thanks for the thanks!You rightly pointed out that Rahman always aims at clean sound,I dont think India is ready for noise,its only too clear from all these discussions here that we're still at a point where we fetishize "clarity", whatever that means(just a lot of treble say the naysayers).But what Rahman definitely does do is complexity,churning polyrhythms,entwined melodic counterpoint,harmony vocals all of which can appear as noise in the first listen.I find I can disentangle his stuff only after a few listens which is precisely what is most exciting about it to me,the fact that I rarely grasp it straight away.So all this going on plus DJish scratches certainly makes Columbus somewhat "noisy" to older/more conservative listeners.And sometimes a high enough degree of complexity might be indistinguishable from "noise".
  
  About that Deep Forest-Thillana Thillana thing I dont know how often that old chestnut keeps coming around like something on a conveyor belt.Each time I ponder on its cosmic import,the futility of utterance and other philosophical questions and each time I decide to give it a miss.But this time around I'm in the right mood,so here goes...
  Has the accuser ever heard of musical quoting,plunderphonics and the revolution wrought by the sampler?
  Does the accuser think that Thillana Thillana would not have functioned or succeeded without that musical quote?
  Does the accuser know that the Deep Forest chant is itself sampled from ethnic recordings of chants of the Baka Pygmies?
  
  And so on and so on......
  
  Sreeni.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Fri Jun 12 15:16:11 EDT 1998
  
  HI SRINEE
  
  MY PAGE:
  Http://home.att.net/~jsri
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 12 17:43:19 EDT 1998
  
  Sreeni,
  Thanks for your liberal mindset and educated opinions. This is the kind of contribution that shines like the sun amidst the jingoism that clouds the DF. The more one opens up to other perspectives the less fixated one is about a singular obsession. Someday, I hope most Tamils will expand their tolerance beyond a single vision, entity, obsession.
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Fri Jun 12 18:45:22 EDT 1998
  
  For althose ARR sympathisizers: the reason we point out the truth about ARR is because there is
  a crowd in Tamil Cine Field who have ganged up alsong with the media to discredit IR and defeat him. The media have made ARR. When "madu" (ARR) are compared to the "malai" (IR) because media and a few jealous cine personell have an axe to grind with IR, we IR fan will not let these guys get away with it
  
  
• From: R.Balaji (@ 129.130.140.38) on: Fri Jun 12 20:43:22 EDT 1998
  
  Hi pals and Sreeni,
  I accept that I was wrong in pointing out the VM and MAdonna.Since you all proved me wrong I had to point out other ARR's lifts.But when I say that you guys either copmare with IR(saying ellarum copy adikarargal why not ARR.)Do you guys think this an healthy arguement?
  MAthavargal enna seithaal namakenna.NAam ozunga erukkoma endru thaan parkannum.I wanted ARR or other tamilians to know that his music is not 100% original.I didn't want to compare with IR.
  I noticed in other threads too.If somebody says that this MD has copied udaney lot os people comes out saying that others too had copied.This will not end at all.Why can't ARR be 100% original?
  Mr.Srikkanth you seem to give lot of depth in the arguments(technical details)pamaran naan.I listen to music and enjoy.Frankly I enjoyed ARR's too.When I came to know of it his lifts.I felt bad.I don't see any originality.Then what does it prove aren't we are dumb?
  SReeni thanks for the information about Deep forest.If I take your logic then I will have to conclude that nobody thinks new and everybody churns out the music of others in different ways.BUT You SHOULD ACCEPT THAT SOMEBODY HAS REALLY THOUGHT SOMETHING NEW And came UP WITH IT.PROBABLY AS YOU SAID THE CHANTS OF THE BAKA PYGMIES.iF IT IS TRUE THEN I WOULD APPRECIATE THEM RATHER THAN DEEP FOREST.AND ULTIAMTELY NOT ARR B'COS HE LANDS UP AS THE THIRD PARTY OF COPYING.
  AM I RIGHT?
  Srikanth...As others said personal attacks are extremely deplorable.But yours is better than mine.The same topic which I opened in indolink is not being discussed well.Rather I have been mocked and teased upon.But I don't care for their remarks.I take it as suriyanai parthu....
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 12 21:01:25 EDT 1998
  
  R.Balaji, I don't see the logic in you feeling like you have been made dumb by realizing that ARR allegedly or actually stole from another source. What is the obsession with 100% original music? In every aspect of Art, whether it is literature, painting, or music, influence of other periods and other cultures is unavoidable. Also the work of the previous generation in a field before one's time is found in the next generation, this is also unavoidable, in a way it is a necessary education. Why do you feel cheated? Why can't you enjoy what sounds good to your ears?
  An artist does not create anything top to bottom without reflection, comparison, trial and error in the process. Some times an artist springs off something that has made an impression in him or her, but this spring board only serves to elevate the artist to the level he/she aims to reach. We can like or dislike the end product, but to dictate how an artist should conduct his process of arrival at the end product is Fascism or to a lesser extent, naive.
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 12 21:13:40 EDT 1998
  
  On a related note, SPB said in his recent concert that modern TFM is all rehashing old stuff. MSV/Ramamoorthy have already done everything there is to do in TFM. These days MDs are just doing variations on those tunes. SPB didn't say it with malice or to undercut anyone, he just shared his observations with the audience as he went on to perform his favorite works of all the MDs. He's worked with all the MDs and sang over 30000 songs so, just maybe he knows what he is talking about, huh, guys?
  
  

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