ARR's plagiarism--tamilians are not dumb.

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ARR's plagiarism--tamilians are not dumb. ARR's plagiarism--tamilians are not dumb.

Topic started by R.BALAJI (@ 129.130.140.38) on Mon Jun 8 21:27:56 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi guys,
I am going to india soon.If you want to show your disapproval against ARR's plagiarism please do reply to this new thread which I will eventually print and give it to ARR personally so that he realises that people are not dumb and listen to his fancy copying of music from abroad and boast himself as a musician.
Even his latest much talked "Vande matram" has one songs which has direct lift of a tune from Madonna's latest "FROZEN".
I don't know how he thinks that he can get away with these fancy copying.I think it is time for us to show him that we are not dumb.

Responses:

Old responses
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Sat Jun 13 01:41:17 EDT 1998

udhaya,
the irritation or the feeling that wehave been made to look dumb is because of the following reason:

each person who listens to TFM will have his own favourite MD or if he does not have any favourite MD he will atleast be a lover of TFM.he takes pride in the fact that his MD was able to come up with such a beautiful tune.

for example even though my friend was not a deva fan he was happy that deva with some good effort had come up with 'meenamma' from aasai.he was really proud of deva and for that instant he forgot who his favourite MD was and was happy that he got to hear a good song. but when i told him later that it was a lift from phil collins it was a terrible anti-climax for him and every time he listened to the song the first thought that came to him was that this was a copy.he stopped listening to that song altogether.he had that feeling that he can always listen to the original and why should he listen to the duplicate?

so likewise, it is not the melody alone that counts.when u listen to a good song u tend to appreciate whoever the MD is and if later u find that the song is a copy u feel that u have been fooled and that brings a sense of anger which hinders u from appreciating the song the next time u hear it.
From: R.Balaji (@ 129.130.140.38) on: Sat Jun 13 02:09:50 EDT 1998

Hi Vijay,
EXCELLANT! This is what I wanted to say but couldn't get these across.Thanks.

Hi Udhaya,
I too enjoy music and enjoyed ARR's but when i came to know of the lifts I too got pretty annoyed as said by Vijay.
SAy for example if an artist is inspired by "Mona Lisa" he would produce different variations of Mona lisa.Do you think you wouold enjoy all the muted variants of the actual picture?won't you get the sense of being cheated?That's what my arguement is about.If ARR is doing this type of work why can't he acceot the fact?
Udaney I think Srikanth,Sreeni,etc may again start saying that IR and other MD's copied and let them say first or wahtever.
Since ARR is claimed to be on top and liked by most I feel that he should be the one to confess.Avan copy adiakaran naan aadicha enna endru solluvathu doesn't sound wise for ARR.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Sat Jun 13 05:15:17 EDT 1998

Vijay:

I am glad that you went into some details about copying and its
effect on our listening. Studying the reactions of people to
copying in this forum, I see two kinds:

1. The 'issue of copying' is more important than the song itself.
Your friend belongs to this kind. He loved the meenammaa song.
But, when he knew that Deva had lifted it from somewhere, all his
enjoyment vanished into thin air (poor fellow)!

2. The song alone matters; forget about where it came from.
I hear meenammaa today. I love it. At the end of the day you
come and tell me that Deva copied it from xyz. I will say, 'Oh, really?',
I'll lose the respect I had for Deva, then continue to listen to meenammaa
a few more times before I go to sleep (because I still thoroughly
enjoy listening to it).

The reason I have used I for illustrating
this second type of reaction is because that's the way I react to
copying. Now why do I react in this way to copying? Simple:
(a) the song -- the enjoyment derived from it -- is the only thing that
matters to me, not who composed it, who wrote it, how they put it
together, what raagaa it is made in, whether the composer stood on
one foot on the top of Mt.Everest while creating it in just one
minute, etc., (b) Who knows, the original song from which it was
copied may not have the same effect on my mind as this copied one,
and, most importantly, (c) if I stop listening to the song because
it was copied, I am the loser!!

I hope this clarifies what Udhaya is trying to say. I can see that
he is running out of energy and will soon give-up on talking about
such 'no-use-talking-about' issues!
From: raja m (@ ww-to01.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jun 13 10:00:24 EDT 1998

Sathiya:

The points you have raised are interesting.

The main undercurrent of all IR/ARR tensions in DF threads is because, everyone over a period of time starts liking a particular MD - over time this MD becomes less popular with the masses, for whatever reasons, some one else becomes more popular, on and on - I am sure this will be a sore point with some, and evoke a negative response.

This has been discussed in detail in many threads, the emotional attachment to a particular MD makes the fan(s) defend all his actions, some which may be biased towards others - this also happens in the case of favourite actor/cricketer/singer...

Intolerence to the new kids on the block is a standard response. One of the DFers has mentioned in another thread that Columbus from Jeans is pure junk, and Kannodu has been tuned by ARR just to please the fans of classical music - a classic example.

Whenever anyone praises ARR irrespective of whether there is a comparision to IR, immediately all the negative points of ARR are brought out - similar to using the heavy roller on the pitch, to remove the uneven bumps created. This is what irritates many who have been listening to TFM for a long time.

ARR is young, talented and has changed the way TFM is `produced' - I am sure this will be attributed to a sound engineer - who decided to give the better sounding music to the fan will be ignored .

If I have digressed, that was not my original intention. Srikanth has been handling all these negative posts to ARR over a long period of time, single handed. I know there are many in DF who like ARR a lot but prefer to remain silent over this madness. It is good there are now vocal supporters to his cause. Srikanth has always maintained how much IR has done for TFM - this fact is always overlooked, he gets battered by the regular bashers, just because he talks good things about ARR. I was initially shocked at some of the responses I got to posting something good about ARR, there were the standard reactions, and more irritating were the posts lauding the reactions ( pure chamcha/yes sir/nalla sonnell pongo - kind).
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Sat Jun 13 19:01:47 EDT 1998

balaji,
iam happy if i have echoed your sentiments.as sathya keerthi said it is a matter of how u look at things.even for me i actually do not mind listening to 'meenamma' since i feel that deva has indeed done a good job with it.also since iam not a deva fan i do not feel 'let down'.if i had been a hardcore deva fan then it might have hurt me more.

also another observation i have made with my own reactions is i feel more irritated if the song is exactly lifted line by line.examples are 'raadhaiyin nenjame' from sharmili,
'vennila vellithattu' from kya hua tera vaada etc.

but deva had copied only the interlude music and the tunes for the pallavi,anupallavi and charanam are original.(i believe so!!) . so credit must still be given to him for that.

BTW, interlude music for thilothamma and pulveli from the same film were also lifted.

devavin 'kelvi gnaanam' vazhga.
From: susee (@ dialin2295.toronto.globalserve.net) on: Sat Jun 13 22:58:05 EDT 1998

I don't think ARR's vande matram is copied from madona's frozen.
1) madona's frozen cd came after the vandhe matram album.
2) it's not even close!!!!
hear madon's frozen (click)
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/alley/4080/frozen.ram

hear ARR's Vandhe matram!
teenstation/bollywood/50/ind/maatujhe.ram

not even CLOSE huh? i bet ARR's better than madona's:) sorry to say this sir bye

http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley/4080/songs.html
From: susee (@ dialin2295.toronto.globalserve.net) on: Sat Jun 13 22:59:39 EDT 1998

sorry i forgot to put the add !
hear is the vandhe matram!
teenstation/bollywood/50/ind/maatujhe.ram
From: susee (@ dialin2295.toronto.globalserve.net) on: Sat Jun 13 23:01:46 EDT 1998

unfortunatly it doesn't take the add!
type
(with out the spaces)
teenstation / bollywood / 50 / ind / maatujhe.ram
From: SRikanth (@ 248.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Jun 14 02:15:08 EDT 1998

Hey Guys
I am back !,

"Accepting the Fact of copying" - here we are talking about Commercial music - Goal for a musician to gain popularity thru his music., also our Tfm mds is to earn some money!.
No musician will agree that they have copied except DEVA & chandra bose -they say they are forced to copy). People like sirpi when questioned about lifting In the summer time as annarkali - (120%) - refused to answer the fans (he has a few) or the public or the media - why should AR - who has changed the TFM and gave it new shine through his ideas - should agree that he copied.
Why should he agree ? - Apart from a musician Ar is top rated bussiness man, he knows to SELL his scores anywhere in the world. The art of selling the music to the world is not easy. I am saying this from my personal experience.
In this marketing process - he uses or touches few spices from other scores. Just taking a mexican Burito instead of Chappathi.
If it is good and accepted - why should you confess?

It is not also wrong as musicians before ARR era have done it and it has been accepted by you, me and eveyone.

Srikanth
From: JUNIOR (@ 194.170.2.30) on: Sun Jun 14 05:00:44 EDT 1998

WHAT VANDE MATARAM SOUNDS LIKE FROZEN!!! YOU MEAN FROZEN SOUDS LIKE VANDEMATARAM. WHOEVER WROTE THAT THING AT THE BEGINING KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT REALESING! DOES HE KNOW ARR WAS WORKING ON VM FOR 6 MONTHS, AMONG OTHER PROJECTS AND WAS RELEASED WAY BEFORE FROZEN! AND TRUST ME IT IS SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF TO KNOW THAT ENGLISH POP USES INDIANS MUSIC, AND ARR DESERVES PRAISE!!! ARR has some mixes, like muqabla, but that was from a music library, and he himself has said that!
finally it seems the guy who wrote this at the beginning seems to be the looser
From: R.Balaji (@ 129.130.140.38) on: Sun Jun 14 07:58:18 EDT 1998

Srikanth..
So now you say that ARR is businessman and he adds few spices here and there to sell his product. The quantity of spices being added is not the question.Oru kuda paalil oru sottu poison kalanthaalum...its gone.So copying canot be quantified.
Then what difference does itgoing to make betwen him and DEva who does it in mass scale.
To me what I feel is anything comes from the heart or soul will be pure.Look at one of the interview given by ARR where he says
"It is different from what people like (but) they will like it because it has got an inherent soul in it. Mostly, I (take on
jobs) which I like but sometimes due to lack of time, or something that happens along the way, the albums are prevented
from realising their potential."

He indirectly means that he struggled hard to come up wiht the tunes by himself.

Hi Junior,
I think I have already apologiozed about VM.Please do not change the track again.

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