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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Mon Dec 3 01:10:31 EST 2001
  
  musicfan, when u talk about lyrics in Tamil songs containing English/Tinglish words, please note that this trend has existed in Tfm long before ARR.
  
  I can give you examples:
  1) "B.O.Y boy, boyinaa paiyan, G.I.R.L. girl, girluna ponnu", this funny and really old tamil song.
  2) Oh-ho Enthan Baby, Oh-ho Enthan Darling.
  3) Hello Mr Wrong Number...
  4) Love Birds, Love Birds..
  5) Viswanathan (come on) Velai Vendum..
  All the above from really old songs.
  
  And then more like
  6) I want to tell you something, wait a minute..
  7) Disco Queen (from Isai Paadum Thendral)
  8) A.B.C Nee vaasi ellam en kai rasi, So Easy..(from Oru Kaithiyin Diary)
  9) Hey I Love You... (from Unnai Naan Sandhitthen)
  10) Ah ha O Butterfly, Butterfly...
  
  And many more.
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Dec 3 02:00:35 EST 2001
  
  You said it. You are a Tamil, if that is how you identify yourself - given your ancestral and geographical history.
  
  Your parents speak tamil. It is the first language your mother perhaps passed on to you. You have history in TN. You'd be a Tamil. I live in Mumbai. You think people here accept me a Marathi even though I have lived here most of my life and speak the language as any maratha man or woman...But I still IDENTIFY as Tamil - as that is the language my mother taught me.
  
  Indhu
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Mon Dec 3 02:12:09 EST 2001
  
  ...kuppusamy who have no interests in these kind of discussions
  
  Fliflo, you find alteast one kuppusamy who HAS interest in these kind of discussions, fortunately or unfortunately :-)
  
  IMHO difference in perception of the film field and the transformation of targeted audience are two of the vital factors for this pronunciation(did i spell it correctly?) affair in TFM.
  
  First, some see Film and Film music as part of (or) as art hence give importance to culture and all allied things. Some see(foremost are the producers) it as pure business that gives lesser importance to culture and values kind of stuff. This is one cause for the prevailing indifference towards the pronunciation and diction affair in TFM.
  
  Second, the targeted audience. It is infact an offspring of the "Business attitude" of point 1 discussed above.
  
  90s saw a kind of change in film music field, in TFM also. That is the target mass. Film music was see more revenue earner (cost head) than hitherto. We have a living example of audio album sales already fetching more profits than the total production cost(e.g yadaein?). 90s and above were the period where people started talking about "grand audio release festivals". In thamizh Mani/GV started it(or atleast more popularised) with Dhalapathy.
  
  Their target are URBAN-Metro "elite" people. New things like SOUND aspects was given more emphasize to give a shot at the arm of audio sales. If you see from business angle it is most welcome. Because of you make people to believe in buying "Original company cassettes and CDs" and boost your sales and hence get money you infact making money -- meeting your objective. Then why you dont do it?
  
  But whereas the semi-urban and rural people are those who still are not "well-versed" with the "audio release culture" and hence decide upon "good" songs only after film release and hence "record" their own collection. Bring into mind the typical tea shops of villages and small towns. These masses are still less penentrated. They still have the same over-over-over recorded cassettes what carried the magnetic impulses of Kadhalikka naeramilla thru annakkiLi to johny to agni nakshatram to roja. They have less "sound effect" on them.
  
  Whereas the Urbans-Metros are already impacted by the "New Generation" in music. These Urban-Metros of thamizhnadu are thamizhs by blood and Mumbaiites by thought and in turn yankee by dream. For them, to show that "Music is International (or) atleast National" you need that "stylish" accented singing. So Producers, MDs go for such singers. Remembers not just HHs, Sadhanas, Kavithas, Sukhvinders are having this "pronunciation affair" you have "clintons", "febis", "monicas" and hell a lot of such new bread singers to grow such a culture.
  
  Keep one thing in Mind. Here, Im neither doubting the ingeniunity/skill of a MD nor I am saying that these thamizh born singers have "ability" to sing difficult song. My point is not that. They may have "energy(!)" to give a full-fledged karnatic concert also. But that is not needed and is not the point here.
  
  I would go one step ahead and say this perceived change in the "Film Producing trend" has its lions share in "downfall" of IR, who IMHO is the last person of the clad "film songs are for films". ARR is already forced into this new generation and I bet even if he wishes(whether such wish is good/correct or bad/wrong is different) he cannot come out of it. For, if he does ARR will be dethroned.
  
  You have films produced in 50Crs. You don't respect Ramanarayanans for producing films in Lakhs. Crores are still big money. No investor would be ok with even a very marginal loss(that itself would be a couple of crores). So you just cannot rely upon story and film because TV and its serials have their share in heavy toll of cine goers. So naturally you are bound to see other source of income which is thru "audio sales".
  
  Hence this anethema(from culture point of view).
  
  Please forgive me for my "as usual" lengthy and erraneous post. If it doesn't make any sense just forget it :-)
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Mon Dec 3 02:48:47 EST 2001
  
  Error: Song (3) I think goes like, "Hello My Dear Wrong Number...
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Mon Dec 3 10:56:59 EST 2001
  
  Kupps, definitely, i did not write having just you in mind..it was more general :-))
  
  I agree with most part of your thread...
  
  I agree with you 100% with this particular statement of yours;
  
  "ARR is already forced into this new generation and I bet even if he wishes(whether such wish is good/correct or bad/wrong is different) he cannot come out of it."
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Dec 3 11:13:32 EST 2001
  
  Kupps,
  
  Let me see if I get this right: The NEW GENERATION does care much about issues of finesse in Pronunciation/Diction etc, the Producers only care about Record Sales (this being a good margin - if not only - of the money the film brings in,) the emphasis is more on Technology/Arrangement/Orchestration - particularly for the Urban masses - and hence the Febis, Srinis, Shubas are merely ornamentation, not really an integral part of the song/composition....That is the gist of your statement (forgive me, if I have completely missed your point).
  
  Here's a suggestion to MDs who couldn't care LESS and the SS,KK,HH (and the FebiSiriniShubaNoelPeters gang) who - poor things - can't get it right, and really why should they bother when the emphasis of the industry is really elsewhere:
  WHY NOT JUST PRODUCE INSTRUMENTAL SOUNDTRACKS? Would save them (and certainly US) a lot of agony. Don't you think?
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Dec 3 11:17:46 EST 2001
  
  That's a good one, that one: ARR cannot come out of IT even if he wishes:
  
  ARR the post-modern Abhimanyu - The Music Industry the Chakravyuham of his OWN making.
  
  Should I be crying??
  
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.250) on: Mon Dec 3 11:25:54 EST 2001
  
  Kupps,
  ur 1st line was good:-)
  
  Your posting did make sense to atleast one if not two:)
  
  Nice perception...especially the "Film Producing trend" para..i agree with you. However, fear of failure should not stop one from changing and/or bringing about a change for good (easier said than done:(). In this regard, we need more people like IR. There should be albums like Kasi to remind us of forgotten (now alien!:() things.
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.250) on: Mon Dec 3 11:29:34 EST 2001
  
  Indhu,
  that was good:) laugh and cry at the same time better than Kamal:)
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Mon Dec 3 11:43:40 EST 2001
  
  Look guys, let's say by some divine intervention, ARR gets plucked from earth and life goes on as usual, do u think this trend of using mumbai singers with poor pronounciation will stop altogether? I think not. So stop throwing around blame on individuals. This is a trend brought about by some gradual change and not by a single person.
  
  If you want to go on about this issue u need to make it clear at this point if it is mainly a language issue, or a cultural issue. Becos culture itself is taking a beating in almost all tamil films. So making a big deal about poor pronounciation in songs will seem like making an issue out of something small where bigger problems lie around unsolved. If it's about language, then I see this discussion having more significance. There needs to be more input from people who see the other side of the coin in order to figure out why this trend continues if there's something wrong with it, and if it is unpopular among the masses.
  If this is going to turn into an MD bashing forum, i see no daylight for this discussion.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Dec 3 11:55:40 EST 2001
  
  WhyNot, wouldn't you say that one has got to start somewhere??
  
  Nobody is advocating cultural PURITY here, neither is anyone putting the blame for the current state of affairs squarely on the shoulders of the MDs. This topic (started by yours faithfully,) was let's say, a "Dip Stick" - to test the waters, to see if there was a similar frustration among other Tamil listeners, to start a colloquia and see if we can get to the ROOT causes of this trend (Language being a real BIG root).
  
  Yes, I am not for MD bashing either. Counter-Productive. Facile. Too Simplistic.
  
  The shift has to be elsewhere. I think it has to do with notions of Pride and Integrity being slowly eroded, and notions of Bottom Line and Commercialism becoming more and more entrenched - faster than you can say AR Rahman!
  
  But let's also call a spade a spade, shall we? Let's start with weeding out singers/MDs who have no investment in the language, only an investment in percentages of profits.
  
  It's a start.
  
  Yes, it might just be a long night's journey into day. But, hey, there's strength in numbers, right?
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Mon Dec 3 12:01:33 EST 2001
  
  >>Let's start with weeding out singers/MDs who have no investment in the language, only an investment in percentages of profits. <<
  
  If tat's what u r going to do, i'll cut the crap and tell u what ur conculsions will be now, and never bother taking part in this thread after this:
  1) Almost all MDs found guilty on the charge of eroding language for profit motives, the ring headed by ARR.
  2) And i'm sure yours most esteemed IR will never have had any profits from this music industry and his only priority & investment is the Tamil language.
  
  Gosh, u guys r ever so predictable!
  
  

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