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What's common in IR, ARR Songs

Topic started by G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on Wed Nov 15 00:03:37 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Many threads deal with the differences in IR and ARR songs. Those include differences in composing-style, tune, orchesration, rythm, chords, melody, catchy beats, bgm etc etc. Is there anything common in their music (strictly with respect to cine music, not in their personalities, not even private albums)?

Most of us agree that its the TFM, nowadays, gives better music(in all form) than MDs from other Indian Films. This prompted me to think in this area. Afterall Rahmaan is a successor of Illayaraja. If we can think about some common things in IR and his predecessor MSVs then why cannot about IR and ARR.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: prakash (@ 193.113.185.133) on: Sat Nov 18 03:55:54 EST 2000
  
  accept it chaps,
  this has just metamorphosed inti another one of those IRvsArr ,in a different garb.these two may have similarities as to the way their career has progressedmay be-I should be truthful-ARR has had greater success commercially.(but not creatively ha ha!)
  THEIR MUSIC ARE SIMILAR TO EACH OTHER AS CHALK AND CHEESE.
  why dont we transfer all these discussions to IR vs ARR and carry on from where we left off!
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 193.113.185.133) on: Sat Nov 18 03:59:29 EST 2000
  
  eden ,
  is it a typo towards the end of y'r posting-should it read as 'even composing two songs with the same tune in 5-10 different movies'?:-)))
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.131) on: Sat Nov 18 04:10:53 EST 2000
  
  prakash!
  This man doesn't compose 5-10 movies that fast:-)Probably your description fits SAR more:-))
  I really meant the `kurukku chiruththavaLE' song...(both happy / pathos versions, which I think is a proof of ARR returning to old MDs' style)
  
  
• From: a.a.a (@ 203.197.135.229) on: Sat Nov 18 06:51:05 EST 2000
  
  From the old film Panchavarnakili to Arangetram ,there are many tamil films where DEBU or trail song scenes have come...So no need for R. Menon to take inspiration from the shot mentioned by Eden...Also Sangamam, KKKK,Rythum are setimental and traditional fims where ARR has rather followed old MSV style for few songs...In these films he has not experimented any thing new...But UIYERE,EN SWASA KATTRE two songs in ALAI...are reflections oaf ARR'S continued Enthusiasm....agree Eden...
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 193.113.185.165) on: Sun Nov 19 09:24:06 EST 2000
  
  one thing i noticded about the filmography of raaja was-he started in a small way and so many small time producers stood to benefit from his creative hormones when they were peaking.whoever heard of a rajkannu when he was producing 16 vayadhinile.
  this is one area where ARR's position is very open to criticism .
  i was watching his interview on sun tv-when he was asked this question-his ans was something like he does not want his work going waste.always back the winners seems to be his policy.has he ever scored for any small time producers,if he has ,were there any hits in that movie?
  
  
• From: a.a (@ 203.197.135.233) on: Sun Nov 19 10:48:48 EST 2000
  
  Pudhiya mugam, Vandi cholai chinna rasu,Pavithra,Uzhalvan,Mr.Romeo and couple of other movies he worked for little known producers or new directors and did give good music ,but the movies were flops and those directors never saw limelight to work again with ARR..For that matter shankar and Kunjumon were little known before the release of Gentleman..Ramgopal varma was quite new to Hindi films at the time of Rangeela..Of late only big producers have survived and more or less few small timers are left for whom ARR does not have time to allott.....a.a
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 24.26.25.180) on: Sun Nov 19 14:48:59 EST 2000
  
  Pudhiya Mugam : Suresh Menon and Revati - a pretty big budget flick.
  
  

  
  Vandi Cholai Chinna Rasu : Low budget, and songs were not that great. (the director Manoj was by no means unknown though)
  
  

  
  Pavithra : A K.Subash movie. Pretty established director,and an assistant of Maniratnam.
  

  
  Uzhavan : Do you call Kathir unestablished? Especially after a blockbuster like Idhayam?
  

  
  Mr. Romeo : Produced by R. B Choudhary, of Super Good films and directed by K.S Ravi (who had directed a few hits starring Vijaykanth before). Again, no way unknown!!
  
  

  
  
  AA sir, check your sources again!

  
  
• From: prakash (@ 213.123.26.99) on: Sun Nov 19 17:19:21 EST 2000
  
  er...i think he will have time to allot if he starts composing faster...
  ramgopal varma was telugu desam's maniratnam when he started making rangeela.
  i dont think he has ever scored music for a small time producer.
  
  
• From: STS (@ 38.29.70.28) on: Sun Nov 19 23:02:59 EST 2000
  
  My opinion why ARR scores for big Directors/Producers
  
  1) Small producers = Less money.
  2) More risk - Lots of chance of movie flicking.
  Which means 6 months efforts wasted!
  3) Very slow in composing. No way he can adjust
  to the demand. Directors have to adjust. (Recent example is Thenaali. Film was complete but they were waiting for songs to be completed. They would have saved the interest part had they released the movie earlier).
  
  It is a materialistic world and ARR is no exception. Don't ask me if IR scores for FREE. Money is not the primary thing for IR as far as my belief goes. Had it been the way, he would accepted Rajini asking KR to score for Pandiyan. And later Kamal for a movie (Don't know this. Kamal mentioned in one interview). IR's belief was KR/YSR were not matured enough to handle the big banners at that time.
  
  a.a.a,
  
  Continued enthusiam? (After 50 to 100 movies? :)
  That way I believe ARR lost his enthusiam in TFM.
  
  
• From: Source of A.A (@ 203.197.135.215) on: Mon Nov 20 00:56:20 EST 2000
  
  KARTHIK....
  Revathy and Suresh started their production company and immediately signed ARR for small amount for their low budget film Pudhiyamugam...As film makers on big screen they are still nobody...
  Chowdry had row of flops Abirami, Pudhiya mannergal,Chinna madam and that was the time ARR agreed for Mr.R....Same goes with K.Subash...After chain of flops including Sathrian and Bramma, Subash opted for off beat low budget film Pavithra for which ARR willingly scored music...
  Can agree with you only on UZHAVAN...
  ARR is quite flexible and likes to work with dynamic youngsters, always....Big or Small..
  
  
• From: G.Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Mon Nov 20 04:37:51 EST 2000
  
  Digression
  
  oh! Sathriyan and Brahma were flops...i didnt know that. i thought Brahma was a big hit when they celebrated 100 days in my city and Sathriyan was a moderate hit when they celebrated 50 days victory. may be i shudn't exaggerate victory in one place to the whole of TN.
  
  wonderful logic for pudhiya mugam. revathy and suresh were well know and pudhiya mugam got very good publicity when they started the project. they may be very new in the film production but dont say that revathy is altogether new for the tamil filmdom. man if i make a truly family movie ie. production direction, hero, heroine then i think i can reduce the budget a bit...can't i :-))
  
  Why shudnt i say ARR made music bcos Mr.Romeo was prabhu deva starrer whose dance made fans (not srikkanth) go crazy that time and esp. ARR+Prabhu Deva combo songs were fetching lots of money?
  
  i entirely agree with the cases of Pavithra (ajith was not a celebrity that time neither the producers and/or director), Vandicholai Chinna Rasu(though sathiyaraj was well know he was giving flop that time). But sirs, is ARR taking such chances now? i'm not arguing whether "he shud" or "he shudn't" my point is "he is not" thats all.
  
  there may be umpteen number of reasons for ARR not taking small budget movies (or) with not so popular people. i can't refute and support. man its upto ARR to decide whether he shud go for this kind of movies or that kind of movies. who am i to bother? does it make a difference in his music? if so then only i shud. or else why shud i?
  
  So friends (those who argue for and against) lets not bother about it lets see his music and give some critical commentary on them.
  
  End digression
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Nov 20 11:25:45 EST 2000
  
  fan..has the uncanny ability of making people say 'I like' or 'listen to ARR' by accusing them of hate/bais etc :-) I am sure nobody wants to be guilty of hate (hate having too much -ve connotations :-) )But the fact is even if we listen to different sources of music we all have opinions on the relative merits/demerits of the work and the creator. Can this be considered as bias ? I dont think so. Maybe I am biased :-)
  
  (BTW, the major, major change brought about by ARR is - 'out with the string section' :-). Ofcourse, he uses strings occasionally but do they sound like those old-fashioned MDs :-) No. this is cool stuff from the synth/keyboards !!)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Mon Nov 20 11:49:03 EST 2000
  
  Kiru,
  
  I think Fan's point is when you are discussing about a musical aspect of IR's music he expects you also to see what ARR has done in that category.In your lot of postings you praise a musical aspect of IR and then just for the sake of being unbiased you say ARR has done "so and so" in that respect without really giving the analytical depth ARR deserves for his work to be criticized.
  
  Since I don't have any musical knowledge,I don't know the musical changes he brought about.But the people's taste for music changed.Other MD's were also expected to change their style and way of composing music to his.
  
  For One of his major hits in 90s( Kaathalukku mariyadhai )IR didn't let one
  singer sing more than one song(which I would think is a minor style of ARR's).He has pretty much followed this style in Bharathy too(barring KJY).
  
  I don't know if it's good or bad,but ARR's style of making music is an important factor for commercial success till now.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 198.133.22.71) on: Mon Nov 20 11:53:12 EST 2000
  
  kiru:
  I don't listen to ARR to please "fan" or to feel less guilty of hate. If your statement was regarding my peace offering towards "fan", I should set the record straight. Perhaps, you are trying to induce in me the guilt of "ditching IR" or just having "poor taste" and thereby try to make me retract my statement ;-) No, I really enjoy some of ARR's music.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Nov 20 12:32:11 EST 2000
  
  Srinath..no no..it was not directed at you. I see people now and then have to make some defensive statements.
  Trend, I never praise IR when talking about a particular musical technique. I dont do that because I am not musically savvy. I only praise IR in general terms ..subjective terms. Given two melodies if one appeals over the other it is difficult to justify to other people. So only in such situations I bring out the adjectives.
  Re: musical techniques - I let the gurus here argue it out.
  I was the one to report first 'gramophone record like noises' added to 'iruvar' songs when discussing the recording details of ARR. I also have mentioned many many positive aspects of ARR here. I used the term 'aural aesthetics' to describe his interest in creating pleasing sounds.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 198.133.22.66) on: Mon Nov 20 12:41:05 EST 2000
  
  Getting defensive yourself now, Kiru ? ;-))
  
  

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