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What's common in IR, ARR Songs

Topic started by G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on Wed Nov 15 00:03:37 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Many threads deal with the differences in IR and ARR songs. Those include differences in composing-style, tune, orchesration, rythm, chords, melody, catchy beats, bgm etc etc. Is there anything common in their music (strictly with respect to cine music, not in their personalities, not even private albums)?

Most of us agree that its the TFM, nowadays, gives better music(in all form) than MDs from other Indian Films. This prompted me to think in this area. Afterall Rahmaan is a successor of Illayaraja. If we can think about some common things in IR and his predecessor MSVs then why cannot about IR and ARR.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 17:02:33 EST 2000
  
  I expect that spoon to have a handle and some place for the food to stick in...the new model stick is not even a chopstick, so i dont know what to do with it (although it looks colorful atleast, that I am excited to hold it)....
  BTW...I am learning. I asked this person (my friend - i dont blame him at all) why are u listening to Michael Jackson's music. And he replied "To learn English"...well I can't disagree with him, becoz he is satisfied with something which I am not. Likewise, u ask me where I will learn music? Certainly not from ARR...
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Nov 17 17:12:38 EST 2000
  
  swamiji, i did not know you are so biased. Frankly IMHO:there are many things to learn.
  simply, I dont want to close my eyes.Prove your points instead of full meals, beedis etc,
  there is bigger gang here who tell IR is nothing, he was just a "vengayam" , uricha onnum illai.
  He just lost his place after 10 years, 80-90! was his peak . period.
  
  Just tell me reason why arr is still there if his music not good, hey you dont like this music dont hear. thats all.
  
  sorry, i think discussing further without on this is not worth it.
  
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 17:32:10 EST 2000
  
  The reason why I have been using metaphors is because everyone can understand the similarities. I never understood numbers, but when someone told me 2 apples + 3 Oranges = 5 Fruits, I got it instantly. That of course gives u the impression that I am biased. Well, I see you dont understand my point. I like ARRs music (probably he will give us more meaningful music when theres less pressure on him)
  Iam not against people that like his music. ARR is still there because people like change...they listen to MTV and would have wondered "why can't tamil MDs make such cool music"...and gave it. And people liked it! ARR obviously can do more to music than I can...But I can be a very good critic of music...I can tell u what is worth preserving.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 17:34:09 EST 2000
  
  Fan, please dont close your eyes...but let your own eyes not deceive you into thinking theres water in the desert although we all think there is!!!
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Fri Nov 17 17:38:32 EST 2000
  
  srikanth:
  if raaja was just a vengAyam and could rule the tfm industry for over a decade, why can't another vengAyam do the same? you see the point?
  
  here is a famous song i hate: nERRu illAdha mARRam ennadhu? it has a bad bass loop. many of his songs are famous for wrong reasons. how many listen to engE enadhu kavidhai? the answer might be painful. the other mediocre song in the same movie "enna chollap pOgirAy?" is extremely famous. "snEhidhanE snEhidhanE": ask a good singer to sing this song without any accompaniment; the holes in the melody become very glaring (chummA indha brigam andha brigam non-senselAm kodukkAdhE :-) ).
  
  coming back to the bass part: how does one construct the bass. it is "in" the or "fills" the chord which means the bass doesn't have to play just the first or fifth or ...; but the harmony is always clear. if not, write a melody for the bass. how do you write a melody for the bass? you already have the given melody; therefore you end up writing a counterpoint. maybe i am ignorant, but what else could you do? these two techniques are used for hundreds of years now and rAjA never lags behind in each of them. if i am wrong, please educate me. just don't say "thAngaladA sami" and exit :-))
  
  hey it's friday. so you might want to wait till monday!
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 17:50:32 EST 2000
  
  BTW, for those that think IR is nothing...Well, let them find out for themselves. My explanations like "counterpoints", "inversions", "Consonance",
  "Modulation" etc...will make no sense (BTW I dont know each applies myself)... but learn. And then talk. Then I understand what u are talking about.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Nov 17 17:51:18 EST 2000
  
  arul. you will not agree arr does music and i will not agree to your claim of "ir is the only musician who did everything to tfm...".....
  
  I dont want to start hating people, I dont want to fight, argue or be in anyones bad books...etc..
  for this childish reasons. Everyone has a taste, i respect it.
  
  I see somethings while I play. if it impresses me I consider that to be a good music. THATS ALL, i dont take a book look for chord progressions or rules to use the triads...properly.. hey after it is creativity..My view of music is different from yours...
  
  So lets us agree to disagree. thats all
  have a good weekend.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 17:54:41 EST 2000
  
  I dont quite understand in "snehidane snehidane"..how the charanam fits with pallavi...MAN IAM LOST...SOMEONE GIVE ME WATER...sorry i dont know the raagam bit, but what Iam lost and thats it (I blame my taste and senses for it)...
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Nov 17 17:56:54 EST 2000
  
  swamji...if someone follows what you say, world will have only critics, not fans.
  There reason I put about ir hate group is to tell that you are the same but taking ir side, thats all.
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 17:57:31 EST 2000
  
  Have a great weekend guys...
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Nov 17 18:01:47 EST 2000
  
  q:why should the charam fit with pallavi ?
  swamji:kalyana sapadu should be in order.
  
  this is never ending , swami, if you dont like...what to do...there are millions who hear the song even today.
  director asked for the song, he was happy. cd was sold, musically did not lack anything...if you say the structure is wrong it doee not become right.YOU CAN BE WRONG...
  I say the structure are right, it perfectly fits the picture...
  
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 18:02:45 EST 2000
  
  Everyone is a critic when it comes to what is important for them...when you decide to buy a keyboard, dont u think atleast a 100 times Korg has this, but Roland doesnt have this???
  But say for example, there is this millionaire that want to play music (but of course doesnt bother what kind of music, he wants only to have fun / maybe impress his GF)...and he will say "Give me a goddamn keyboard" and thats it. He will be happy!...
  Likewise, if I consume music (in material terms), I expect the best out there...and I am MY BEST critic...
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Fri Nov 17 18:03:02 EST 2000
  
  srikanth:
  you are completely wrong! i don't dislike arr or his music. i only dislike his mediocre songs that are touted as the greatest ever compositions and am really sorry for him that his great compositions are not famous. do you know that thINdAy thINdAy was totally outshone by niagara niagara, i mean, in india. when you say "I see somethings while I play. if it impresses me I consider that to be a good music" you are talking like a what you all call "hcirf". we cannot discuss on anything subjective. only technicalities can be discussed. i had a genuine question on technicality; you are welcome to choose to answer or ignore.
  
  (btw, i have no intention of countering or accepting your judgment of my musical taste. if you got to know who i consider to be the greatest musician of all time, you would be surprised :-)). btw, don't get any ideas, it's certainly not msv :-)))) )
  
  see you monday. have a nice weekend.
  
  
• From: Anand (@ 192.11.226.101) on: Fri Nov 17 18:05:08 EST 2000
  
  fan,
  You have used a a very strong word "creativity".
  You clearly will have to substantiate. Sooma vaiiku vanthathu ellam keyboardla transpose paana mudiathu.
  Coming back to the thread. The only smilarity between ARR and IR is their ability to captivate janata. To a large extent ARR was able to cross Gumudipoondi and made folks sway to his music and ofcourse his abliity to market himself well. Due credits should be given.
  
  fan: Please cut the crap on bass. You being a musician should know who is superior.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 18:06:28 EST 2000
  
  By the way, serious Bay Area musicians contact me (post here if you are one of them)...I want to play music exactly like you hear them on the screen...and I believe I can do that. I play the keyboards....but one more keyboard will be cool...
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Nov 17 18:06:45 EST 2000
  
  ahhh arul...you dont dislike arr music..
  
  ahha bultina bulti ..super bultipa...
  arul..nala kada udaringa.. :)
  
  anyway...i disagree totally with you.
  i dont expect you to like msv, that demands a better taste, i doubt it.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 18:09:40 EST 2000
  
  Better taste????...hehehe
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Nov 17 18:10:29 EST 2000
  
  anand, I know who is better but I dont discount others by just glorifying one person. there are also Others who knows music.
  
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Fri Nov 17 18:12:15 EST 2000
  
  fan fan fan... you never disappoint people. do you!. my advisor often says one thing. "do not assume. when you do, you make an a s s out of u and me! :-))
  
  (btw, take it lightly. i thought your comment about me was in a manner of a friend who like to tease his friend!)
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Nov 17 18:15:43 EST 2000
  
  I think its time I quit. See ya all ~~~~~~~~~~
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Fri Nov 17 18:21:36 EST 2000
  
  yes..time to quit...
  arul, swami and others.I apologize...for my fighting.. :) romba nal achu....
  idle mind is devils workshop..sitting idle..for the past 2 hrs...nothing to do..
  anyway....nothing new...::)))
  have a good weekend
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.144) on: Fri Nov 17 22:52:46 EST 2000
  
  Back to the title of the thread:-)
  
  There's a strange similarity (strictly IMO): After a phase of `majority experimentation' during all the late 70's & early 80's, IR had resorted to kind of `majority MSV-like simplicity' in late 80's (Take the case of village songs of Ramarajan and many other movies where just Tabla /flute /violin were used...even lead guitar was a rarity)...on and off there'll be one MR or KB movie which will have all kinds of experimentation but those were minority...this continued till early 90's (I'm not discussing the late 90's or current at all)
  
  I'm afraid whether ARR follows in a similar fashion..albeit much quicklier and with very much less quantity...the movies of 99 & 2000 seem to show lack of enthu in `experimentation' (read -trying novelties or `new sounds' whether borrowed or not)...even trying to be IR-like (KKKK is an example, first I thought ARR-Rajiv menon team did that deliberately to ridicule, for e.g. take the voice test scene for aish which resembled `dEvan koil deepam ondRu' or `thAmtha dheemtha Adum uLLam pAdum' songs -even the one who acted the MD looked like GA-, `engE enathu kavidhai' taking a clue or two from `dEvanin kovil moodiya nEram', second interlude of `enna solla pOgiRai' employing strings like `poovarasampoo poothAchchu' etc..., but then there is quite a pattern of following the past MDs, even composing two songs with same tune in the same album in mudhalvan etc.)...
  
  

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