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Technical Skills of the MDS

Topic started by Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-126.il.us.ibm.net) on Sat Aug 15 21:37:27 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi,
In here I wish to compare the technical skills of the MDS - more on ARR and IR What are reasons for ARR being called a technician. Eg: Recording - Raja has used one of the best studio in the country Prasad, which has a clavier recording console (there are only 10-15 of them in the world.) M.Jacksons records uses that. So gadgets wise all the MDS use the same gigs but why ARR's output is crystal clear, Shall we discuss.
(PS: Please do make this into a arr vs IR war)

Srikanth.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Sat Aug 22 01:04:53 EDT 1998
  
  Dolby surround has only 5 channels: left, center, right, surround and subwoofer (Srikanth, itha thani channelAvA consider pannuvaanga?). Dolby has only mono surround.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-58.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sat Aug 22 02:41:09 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  Ravi: Dolby surround sound what we hear thru HBO or NBC or Fox is what you say.
  Dolby in movies is little more powerfull than our home theater systems.
  For Example - in kuruthi poonal - when K.Viswanath visits Kamal, the kids will be playing out side , which can be heard in a corner with a depth. This is not possible in mono surround. Meaning Mono surround will push a sound to surround left and right based on a time signal.
  I get a digital movie channel which offers a dolby digital at times - it sounds good, but our system is still not dobly digital.
  
  Whereus movies tracks are recorded to come at exact positions. In stereo we can pan left to right , with DTS we will be able to pan around all the 4 channels and place the sound accordingly. Subwoofer will always contain bass sounds.
  btw Ravi: Thanks for adding the NN link, visitors have increased, made me to work on spb hits, should ready by this week end.
  
  Srikanth
  Srikanth
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: pg (@ client-116-28.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Aug 22 08:27:31 EDT 1998
  
  DTS & Doly Digital are both 5.1 channel surround-sound encoding scheme. Both use perceptual coding - ie - they delete what human ears cannot hear and compress the rest. DTS compression is 4:1 and Dolby Digital compression rate is 16:1. Technically Dolby Digital loses more info than DTS. But acoustically you cannot make out any difference. DTS has been a big success in the theatres and is THE standard but has lost out in the home theatre market. Even though there are ads and DTS receivers; DTS decoders for the home thearer no DTS DVDs are available yet. (DTS sound tracks due to its lower compression rate needs more space on the DVD). Dolby Digital has been a huge hit in the HT market and every DVD has at least one Dolby Digital soundtrack. Dolby Digital is also called AC-3.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Sat Aug 22 13:26:26 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth: Thanks a lot. And you are welcome. :-)
  pg: ah.. thanks for the clarification.. DD is AC-3. I read about AC-3 somewhere buthadn't made the connection. :-).
  
  
• From: Mano (@ gaff149.watstar.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sat Aug 22 17:30:27 EDT 1998
  
  Pg:
  If you check Famous players in Canada, all of them have the Dolby digital. DTS, DDSC are used in cineplex odeon cinemas. I've read in the panasonic home page, that virtually no differene exist between DTS and Dolby Digital. But the DTS faild to bring the complete effect from the recording studio to the theatre since theatre is so noicy. In that perspective DD is much better than DTS. Some DVD's come with DTS too.
  
  
• From: Mano (@ gaff149.watstar.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sat Aug 22 17:35:19 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  Check the 'Thayin Manikodi' album released by RPG (HMV). It was recorded in Pachattan inn and crystal clear. Especially sixteena.. song. I think IR should focus on Digital recording.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-144.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sat Aug 22 18:11:17 EDT 1998
  
  Hi
  Pachattan inn : This is owned by ARR, he records all his stuff here.It is also avilable for outsiders, but charges are pretty hi.
  
  Proper Equipment usage by the Sound engineer plays a vital part in a recording.
  
  Mano: Most of the Theaters in Tamil Nadu have DTS or dolby.
  
  I recently watched X-files on the big screen, Sound travelled around me, Great work on the sound effects., Might get an academy.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Mano (@ gaff149.watstar.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sat Aug 22 19:07:03 EDT 1998
  
  I agree Srikanth. ARR's recording is good because he use digital and has good sound engieers. Why don't we talk about sound engineers? We always say ARR did the marvellous job, but who is behind it? Isn't that strange?
  
  
• From: Mano (@ gaff149.watstar.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sat Aug 22 19:08:05 EDT 1998
  
  BTW,
  I watched 'Saving Private Ryan' in big screen with DD and THX. The sound effect is brilliant.
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca) on: Sun Aug 23 18:37:44 EDT 1998
  
  
  I think IR does not care/ignores how his music is transferred to tapes/CDs. Maybe ARR is particular about this.
  Also, Kadhalukku Mariyadhai is done very well. There is lot of detail in the music.
  ARR is using MIDI equipment I guess. His music sounds good on average quality equipment but if you go into music quality systems I dont hear any harmonics in his music (eg. minsara kanavu). The sounds he records are not real. I rather would like to like to listen to real instruments.
  But I liked his attention to detail in 'Iruvar'. In 'poo kodiying punnagai' he has added some LP Click/Crackling noises to make the song sound 'old'. (around 4:20 and 4:58). In 'unnodu naan iruntha" song you can hear the clock ticking sound.
  
  Somebody said here to listen to IRs music you dont need high-end audio systems. But I am beginning to change my mind. IRs music is worth the money spent on high end. ARRs music - i am not sure. He has already boosted the bass & treble for you and you are not going to hear any more harmonics than what you hear on your run-of-the-mill AIWA/Sony all-in-one plastic boxes. I am generalising here probably not all his songs are like this.
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca) on: Sun Aug 23 18:48:45 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  ARRs music is not 'crystal clear'. It is just distilled. They are probably recorded directly from the midi equipment to the DATs. Real music (you should know better than me) should have a 'sound stage'. This is missing in ARRs recording. Ofcourse, it will sound good on all home audio systems.
  I am afraid we are misunderstanding what 'recording' is. I am quite happy with the Nothing but Wind CD inspite of the hiss and everything. IRs has been very conservative with the 'dynamic range' because he knows that TN listeners do not have systems that can 'realistically' be used to listen orthodox western classical music.
  
  A 'recording' in my defintion should recreate a live playing of that music. You should be able to tell where the tabla is, where the bass guitar is and who/what is behind what (depth).
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-242.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sun Aug 23 19:06:09 EDT 1998
  
  Kiruba:
  It is misnorm ARR uses only midi. Midi is just a tool. His accostic recording are best in the world. Hear Vadematharam - the 12 string guitar work. VERY GOOD recording. Recording midi output properly is more difficult than natural sounds. Arr uses many natural instruments whose recording is perfect.You say you are not able to hear much of musical harmoics, that has got nothing to do with recording. Sati irudha than aagapaila varum!, hope you understood.
  
  your last line : In ARR's songs you will know, where all the instruments are placed, this is because they are well balanced. Rajas recording is not upto the mark because of the sound engineer. ARR works with Sridhar, one of the best Sound engineer in Asia, but according to many in the music field madras - Sridhar is real AH!. (Short form of a bad word)
  
  Live recording are different from the studio recordings. ARR was using DAT long time ago but now he uses direct hard disk recording., transports the mixes in DAT's, currently it is masterd on CDs.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on: Tue Aug 25 12:26:03 EDT 1998
  
  srikanth,
  I am still waiting for your jazz chords!!!.
  
  Anand Mahadevan
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 207.122.201.66) on: Tue Aug 25 15:56:49 EDT 1998
  
  Hi
  Anand:
  ARR always starts a song with an unconventional chord. Usually MDS including Raja start with chords relative to the scale of the song. If the song is in E, the first chords will be a EMajor but in Jazz, as far as I know this is uncommon.
  - The first chord placed will be anywhere from a ninth to a suspended or a 4th. (at times they are 6 fingered or 7 fingered chord – depends on the Jazz musician) , ARR adapts this very much. Listen to the chords - in the lead of enai kana vendume in Kadal desam, you will get what I am trying to say.
  - Similarly, Starting chord of porale ponnuthayee is very unconventional.
  
  The reason I did not post an answer on this here because, the topic is on recording! .
  
  
  This is one of the few reasons I like ARR scores.
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca) on: Tue Aug 25 17:47:31 EDT 1998
  
  Re: soundstaging. I am still not convinced about ARR's recording. Please suggest some ARR album where the sound looks as it is in a live performance.
  
  Re: musical harmonics. I meant the harmonics of the natural frequency of the musical instrument. No, surely I do not hear it is ARRs recording. My theory - it is because it is all synthesised. I am pretty sure about the drums. (Even Eric Clapton has used it in his recent album and is getting flamed in music circle)
  
  (BTW, I listen to music after closing all doors/windows to avoid background noise. I do not have the same feeling (lack of harmonics) when listening to American made recordings.
  
  But I have to agree ARR now and then uses real instruments. I will check out VandeMataram. Thanks.
  
  Dont you think recording is a science and that more than one person (Sridhar) should be able to do this ?
  
  As far as recording is concerned - my benchmark is Pink Floyd. Specifically, Dark side of the Moon.
  If you can find one copy please listen to it and compare that with ARR. Love to hear your observations.
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca) on: Tue Aug 25 17:48:05 EDT 1998
  
  Re: soundstaging. I am still not convinced about ARR's recording. Please suggest some ARR album where the sound looks as it is in a live performance.
  
  Re: musical harmonics. I meant the harmonics of the natural frequency of the musical instrument. No, surely I do not hear it is ARRs recording. My theory - it is because it is all synthesised. I am pretty sure about the drums. (Even Eric Clapton has used it in his recent album and is getting flamed in music circle)
  
  (BTW, I listen to music after closing all doors/windows to avoid background noise. I do not have the same feeling (lack of harmonics) when listening to American made recordings (not all)).
  
  But I have to agree ARR now and then uses real instruments. I will check out VandeMataram. Thanks.
  
  Dont you think recording is a science and that more than one person (Sridhar) should be able to do this ?
  
  As far as recording is concerned - my benchmark is Pink Floyd. Specifically, Dark side of the Moon.
  If you can find one copy please listen to it and compare that with ARR. Love to hear your observations.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-102.il.us.ibm.net) on: Tue Aug 25 19:27:57 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Kiruba:
  
  Dont you think recording is a science and that more than one person (Sridhar) should be able to do this ?
  No, anyone with creativity,interest and dedication can be a good sound engineer, but not like other art - this demands more technical knowledge.
  (BTW:This applies to music also. There are many musicians who works hard to good music, it is not Raja alone.)
  No one has achived a name as a sound engineer as Sridhar till now.
  
  You are comparing an international group, if compared Pink floyed, closest Indian recording is ARR's ablums. Raja's is some light years away.
  
  Regarding drums, ARRs sounds are mostly from a drum machine. There are occasions he has used real percussion, but majority of the scores are drum loops from Roland,kurtzwell,korg, Akai etc.
  Whereus Our man Raja's drum beats are well composed, it is not purchased from shelf.
  There is no doubt Raja's beats are classiy, but Attimes he should consider drum samples.
  
  Also,did anyone watch Xfiles this sunday, 8:00pm Ct, an excellant Tabla and harmonium piece was used for a thriller scene.(Placement: when an alian like invisible creature attacks agent Moulder and a young boy) (Reminded me Raja)
  Tabla recording was awesome, when you hear a Indian score-automatically tears flow out from eyes.
  
  Srikanth
  
  

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