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The most scathing IR criticism ever, probably!

Topic started by cyk (@ 216.65.106.130) on Sun Sep 3 23:55:27 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I found this in the official message board of arrmp3 (geocities.com/arrmp3) run by Karthik, by someone called Pennathur. The write-up is probably the most scathing criticism I've ever come across of IR!!

cyk


Sites like aaraamthinai and indiainfo seem to be publishing motivated stuff about rahman.

let's face it folks there are still some people who can't accept the fact that Ilayaraja is no longer the Raja he was. It is not just that he has retired from the scene or something Rahman has ushered in a new order of things and has come out on top in a more comptetitve market. These controversies also have regional element to them. And please believe me I am not being parochial. Rahman's music is urban and specifically rooted in his favourite city (mine too) MAdras. Ilayaraja is a reluctant resident of Madras and for the talent that comes out of Cumbum, Madurai, Thenee he is the supremo. The composers and musicians in his - Raja's - camp (all incredibly talented) who work on TV serials and small clips for the movies will never accept that Ilayaraja's time is up. And they have been naysayers for a long time. For some time Ilayaraja tried propping up his sons Kartik and Yuvan Shankar, who unfortunately aren't even a glimmer in comparison to their illustrious father. And Kartik the upstart and braggart needlessly muddied himself badmouthing Rahman. Today neither of the boys are anywhere on the scene.

The comparisons that some people wouldn't like to make are as follows:

Ilayaraja was a swollen headed man - how many of you know that the title Isaignani was self-anointed?
While Rahman continues to remain a humble person and makes no great claims for himself except that he slogs his whatever off for each and every song

Ilayaraja was virtually hostile towards the press and never deigned to grant interviews or enven show himself in public. Rahman is approachable and fields soem fairly sensitive questions

Ilayaraja is but one in a long line of film composers in the many languages of India. But have you ever heard him acknowledging his own guru - GK Venkatesh - or MSV or anyone else? Rahman n the other hand is profuse in his praise for other composers and even acknowledges the genius of Ilayaraja

Rahman was the guy who taught Ilayaraja to use multi-track recording and remastering with Punnagai Mannan - and it is an open secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman - and that's how KB caught hold of Rahman for Roja (remember KB produced the film) Raja has never acknolwedged tha man by now

Rahman continues to be a gracious man and participates in free events every now and then. While he may not be like the great MSV (who took care of SM Subbiah Naidu till his last days, performed free with his harmonium for some plantation workmen in Sri Lanka, who can even today be seen taking a walk down Santhome High Road in the evenings chatting up with the local potti kadai guys, or having a stroll by the beach) he is approachable. We do know that Raja came from very humble origins but how much does he mix around or remain rooted with people in everyday life?

In an interview on TV some years back someone asked MSV has Ilayaraja set you aside and has Rahman set aside Raja. To which the inimitable MSV replied, "No one sets aside anyone else. One: the listeners decide these matters as we just exist to satisfy their musical needs and two: only God can set people aside" Isn't it interesting that most Rahman fans are fans of MSV too? It is indeed a coup that Rahman got MSV to sing on "Sangamam"? With Rahman we are seeing the return of those balladish robust strains we would hear in every MSV solo.

And one more thing Rahman steers clear of something that Raja loved to do - interfere with the movie script and its direction etc. And that's what led to his downfall and parting of ways with his close friend Bharatiraja. The slide for Raja began with "Captain Magal" when Bharatiraja threw Raja off the sets for monkeying around. After which BR erased all the background score and the two songs already composed and called Hamsalekha to score the movie.

Fame is a very fickle thing. You don't know when it will part from you. MSV never let fame go to his head and has retired gracefully. While Ilayaraja just cannot, having lorded over the scene like a banyan tree (nothing grows underneath a banyan)

The story of Ilayaraja is a lesson to all of us.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Sun Sep 17 17:23:57 EDT 2000
  
  Dear Mr. Pennathur,
  
  Only one thing is unclear. Your post in Indiainfo was a purely personal attack on IR, quoting various bad facets of his personality (and if possible, cud u substantiate ur posts abt his swollen-headedness, interfering with the movie's script etc... bcos... dont u think it is easy, yet unfair to post such things without giving proof ?)
  
  In any case, if u were only attacking IR as a person (which u have a right to do, IR is after all a public personality), what was the object of ur comparing him with ARR on that front???? I mean, if u were comparing their musical styles or something, then there is some sense in comparing. U shud probably have stopped at saying things u wanted to say abt IR (with proof or not), and not glorify ARR with respect to him "as a person" !
  
  I am sure that, under such circumstances, it is natural for people to assume that u are just a mischief monger. And did u notice, thers nobody whos defending u at all... Thats probably bcos, even though u have some valid musical points, ur objectives and intentions are totally unclear. Sometimes u comment on the fans of IR and their stubbornness, their misplaced deification of IR...sometimes on IRs hot-headedness... sometimes on his music....and finally make some illogical conclusions. Remember that this is tf"m"page. so lets stick to music as far as possible.
  
  And, on a more general note, in spite of my being a long-time surfer of this page, and having witnessed many an IR-ARR fans' battle, it is extremely stressful to read these hot blooded postings. ( I hope there are other people here who believe the same,.. I guess none of the old-timers have responded in this thread, so I suppose they are just too seasoned to this, and are ignoring it )
  
  Please, please and please again for heavens sake... I know this is a Common Forum, and people can post what they want,... but it is also a "moderated" DF right? I strongly feel something must be done to clamp non-musical discussions with no good intention whatsoever, and that are intended to just raise the temperature ... so that it remains a pleasure to come to this page and learn abt music.
  
  hari
  
  
• From: Raaja Rasikan (@ 202.54.71.64) on: Mon Sep 18 11:49:14 EDT 2000
  
  Pennathu(r)..
  U havent replied me..u said ARR won two national awards...with in ten years fine.....to put u on u r langauge ARR is a oneday player with unconventional shots..well he might be scoring..but IR is a stylish seasoned player u have to know the game to enjoy his juicy cuts(Karuvelam Pookal)..powerful drives(Hey Ram).... clasy off drives(Kanna Unnai Thedughiren)...delicate flicks(Bharathy)...r a stunning straight drives(Sethu...man the song 'Enghe Sellum' still haunts me).......Man u have to know this game...."Kittipullu adravana cricket pathi pesa sonna ippadi than aghum......."
  
  
• From: Sai (@ 199.72.89.253) on: Mon Sep 18 12:14:12 EDT 2000
  
  Hi Raaja Rasikan...
  I enjoyed your writing style...
  good 1
  Sai
  
  
• From: vijanth (@ 143.117.11.25) on: Mon Sep 18 13:10:00 EDT 2000
  
  You told that IR learned from ARR during the composition of Punagai Manan. Well Raja did well actually before that even his first movie was a real hit.
  ARR used modern way of composing using system generated scripting which gives multiple tune after feeding some musical notes whereas Raja uses
  notes from scratch.
  Both have their plus and minus points.
  Your correlation on Balachander's Punaigai Mannan
  and Roja is going nowhere because BC have no idea
  of ARR before Roja.
  Anyway nice article but there needs a bit of scrutiny before worth considering.
  Nice try mate
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.153.56) on: Mon Sep 18 14:31:14 EDT 2000
  
  Hi Pennathur
  
  Well, going by the kind of reaction you've triggered off here, looks like you've very much achieved your objective. Though I feel sorry about the degenerate standards that this discussion has touched quite often.
  
  If you haven't found too many reasoned rebuttals to your postings, it's only because seasoned DFers are by now sick and tired of these verbal slanging that has very often been induced by sheer mischief-mongering.
  
  Your initial posting on arrmp3 is one sure astounding piece of confident blunder, toted in the best traditions of PR that ARR has been so successful in engineering. I guess you're the type that finds a ultra-sanitised 'Kuch Kuch Hota Hai' and 'Kandukonden Kandukonden' fashionable to watch amongst your transcontinental friends, and would wrinkle your nose against a 'Sethu' or 'Bharathi', that cheap offerings that remind you of the sweat and grime of rural TN. To be fair, you're in no way a minority to be ignored, and I'm sure an Aditya Chopra or Rajiv Menon would precisely have you in mind when they chalk their next pan-national smorgasbord.
  
  To respond briefly (pardon me if stated earlier)
  
  1 A swollen head and musical ability - any connection? If humility is the trademark of a great musician, you can't get past Deva for any Oscar
  
  2 Rahman slogs for every song, while IR goes around making fancy concerts and recordings in the desert with a musicompany-hairdo?
  
  3 IR was never hostile to the press, he was (and is) just naive and ignorant about the power of media to generate high-voltage PR.
  
  4 To say that IR has never acknowledged his past-mentors shows that either a) you've lived in Cleveland since 1977 and started watching Indian media only after ARR gave one of his 'humble' interviews where he credits everyone from MSV to SAR barring IR, or b) you suffer from a serious bout of selective amnesia a la Madame JJ
  
  5 Granting ARR taught IR multi-track recording and remastering, does it make him a better sound recordist or a better musician than IR?
  
  6 If it was indeed an open secret, why hasn't the issue of ARR composing two songs in PM never appeared earlier?
  
  7 Your fable of KB discovering ARR through PM is patent nonsense. KB did a few films with IR much after that, and Roja came about through Suhasini's intro. KB was nowhere instrumental. I'm doubly sure because even when ARR (then Dilip) did a concert with us in 1991, there was no mention of any prospective film offer.
  
  8 You don't know enough about IR's personal life, nor are you abreast with reportage that talks about IR doing movies for free or at high discount, to talk about comparitive graciousness.
  
  9 I have a feeling that your knowledge of TFM is singularly based on such illuminative sources as Rediff, looking at your 'ARR's MSV coup for Sangamam'. If you'd cared to research a little more, you'd have found that IR has not just scored jointly with MSV (when his market value did not need him to do dos), he's also had him sing on many occasions. If you can stumble upon "Erikkanal kaatril' of 'Yathramozhi' somewhere, maybe you'll then be able to elaborate on the grave injustive IR's done to MSV's 'balladish robust strains'.
  
  10 When ARR doesn't have the time to do a re-recording, why would he then bother about
  movie script and direction? Without doing any of these, he's singularly brought Tamil moviedom to a glorious pass where even a BR gets some Hindi tracks he's done to pass off in Tamil, and weave a whole movie around it ('Alli Arjuna')
  
  Truly, most of your points deserve no rebuttal. If you'd cared to lookup some other threads, you'll know that many a HCIRF (including me) have been the harshest critics of IR's music as well as his persona when the occasion demanded.
  
  I will wait for the day when you make one reasonable argument instead of trite stuff such as winning awards (does Rajini's Padma Bhushan make him a greater actor than Mohanlal or Kamal, or did MGR's national award discredit Sivaji?).
  
  You don't have to travel-hunt around Tamil Nadu to know that today the patti-thotti's of TN reverberate with 'yappa, yappa, aiyappa' and 'annangaru aandalu'. So by popular barometer, Deva is way ahead of ARR...
  
  running out of time, later...
  
  
• From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Mon Sep 18 16:52:45 EDT 2000
  
  Suresh :
  
  Your post is, IMHO, the most balanced and coherent post to the tripe that has poured from Pennathur's vitriolic pen. It is my sincere hope that biased attention-getters will not influence the emotional in the future.
  
  May your tribe increase.
  
  

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