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IR - SOME SAYS HE'S NOT A GOOD SOUND ENGINEER

Topic started by dvd (@ 161.142.100.85) on Thu Feb 22 22:47:43 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

HI! I am HCF of IR. I am a fan of ARR too.
Comparing both of these great fames, some claims that even though IR is far more superior in terms of music writing, all classical items (Western or Indian), ragas, melody etc., IR lacks in sound engineering aspects.

ARR, in contrast, produces music of superb sound quality (I think no one denies this fact).

My question here is, how good (or bad rather) is IR in terms of sound quality management and engineering (SQME). Would like people with deep techno-acoustic knowlegde to share their precious views in this thread. Which is more crucial, rhytm or sound quality? What happens if both of them meet?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 17:07:43 EST 2001
  
  pg,
  
  That's what it's intended to do.But the new age artists experiment and deviate at times.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.226.194.166) on: Fri Feb 23 17:10:40 EST 2001
  
  I clearly dont know how to brand a song has a "pop" based. only one logic I can think of ...since it is not classical music , it becomes pop music.
  
  Arr does indian music thats all., His mixes and matches all kinds of music.
  Take urvasi urvasi, it is a pure "sudha danyasi" raga., but it is coverd well with some good scoring.
  
  Regarding recording qulaity during ir days or msv days, they used best equipments that was avaiable in those days., but they did not exploit it.
  
  Many of ir mixes are often centered, with high midrange, cannot feel separation, this can be cleary felt if you own a good monitor headphones.
  All the songs were treated the same way, like today, nothing new was tried in recording. They followed what the sound engineer told them.
  Arr introduced
  * voice doubling in vocals.
  * Reverbs for any instruments (including bass and drum)
  * Efx like early reference were used for thavil.
  
  * The delays are well calculated, moves with song bpm. (each song has a bpm, like for example raja kaiyavecha is bpm 144), olden days it was random.
  * Clear acoustic recordings, eg: guitar in july mathan vanthal or dholak in kuruku sivathavale.
  
  I heard that arr did about 20+ masters for the hindi album "daud". During pre-arr days 1 master is big deal. Todays Mds have started to worry more about output/mixng quality. they involve even in selecting good audio companies.
  Mds pre-arr era did not worry much about it, eg:
  Pink echo tapes.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 17:13:55 EST 2001
  
  comment;
  
  good posting.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Feb 23 17:26:06 EST 2001
  
  ARR is POP+New Age. POP because of the way he uses drum/bass or drum machines. New Age for the reverb and modified sounds. Because he is doing indian stuff you can call it World music too.
  
  I am not giving excuses for IR. I sincerely meant his time is better spent writing score. Its like somebody could be inventing algorithms instead of writing programs. I dont think altering sounds/ne w sounds is a big deal. (Atleast thats not my taste). But he could surely use better recording/mixing setup/engineers consistently. The last word is the keyword.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 17:37:33 EST 2001
  
  With all above info. one can submit a MS thesis on sound engineering. If Arr concentrates 90% of his time on that then what is wrong if people call him as a better sound engineer? You guys by giving in-detail info. going ahead to prove that!!
  
  Hurrey!!
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.226.194.166) on: Fri Feb 23 17:56:50 EST 2001
  
  do you know sridhar is better sound engineer than Arr, according to your logic sridhar should have replaced arr long time ago.
  flifo...ayoooooo grow up man...:)
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ 139.72.120.22) on: Fri Feb 23 18:33:36 EST 2001
  
  Only matters is how long the song will stand?
  How long we can hear the song wihtout feeling bore?that matter counts.
  Technology will change as time changes.You can still listen to early 50's songs,what instrument they had except hormonium.
  Score is matters.Same the case with 60's,70's.Many people still love to listen those great melodies,why?
  B'coz,the way music score had been written for those songs is simply melodious and great.That's why still soothing to your ears after so many years.
  Nobody cares about the Technology.For that matter,apart from ARR how many MDs are using ARR kind of recording techniques.Hardly none.
  But,still songs are becoming popular,people are listening to them ...It proves that not recording technique is the soul of the song.It's definately writing notes and injecting melody into it,but not SOUNDS.ARR knows himself that he can't stay here with his skills in writing notes,instrumentation.Cleverly,chosen the area where nobody has put their fingure,which is appealing different now.Let's see what will happen to ARR's music after couple of guys start using the same technique.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.226.194.166) on: Fri Feb 23 18:42:06 EST 2001
  
  krisha - you have valid point in your last 2 lines,
  harris jayaraj is one such person, arr has to change his gigs, harris also knows the trick.
  one thing is sure, arr is quick learner, he will bring in something new. i am waiting eagerly for their next albums, (harris and arr)
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.161.69) on: Fri Feb 23 18:45:36 EST 2001
  
  COMMENT;
  
  FYI, If Sridhar comes seperately with an album he is going to be better than ARR. There is a problem being in top. You never know when you will fall. Probably Sridhar does not wish, I guess. Who has to grow up now...he he he
  
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.161.69) on: Fri Feb 23 18:51:13 EST 2001
  
  Krsna;
  
  Arr is quick learner..is that the reason he takes 6 months for composing one album. Crap..Crap..
  May be he is hearing cassettes to choose a new sound. For a genius it should flow..not going on looking for something from some where...
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.165.210) on: Fri Feb 23 19:06:45 EST 2001
  
  No offence...I walk away from this never ending business. I will have boost and come with more power.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.226.194.166) on: Fri Feb 23 19:26:37 EST 2001
  
  i hear music for music. thats all. arr is a quick learner, he is perfectionist. so he takes longer time, when directors/producers are ready to wait...who cares.
  
  flifo..no one can beat you in talking trash..i know you will take this ir vs arr., so long.
  nature end to this thread. i suppose :)
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.168.223) on: Fri Feb 23 20:19:30 EST 2001
  
  flifo..no one can beat you in talking trash..i know you will take this ir vs arr., so long.
  nature end to this thread. i suppose :)
  
  Well you guys keep such a topic and start great about ARRs recording and when I say the same thing you guys track back and say no..no..sridhar is a better guy...if Sridhar is doing sound recording and if ARR uses many of the exisitng tunes..let me know what else he does. You great guys explain me.
  
  No IR vs ARR fight here. Well, ARR was pulled in even before my entry here. Interesting topic is to discuss only about IR.
  
  Moreover, you guys say he is a quick learner and it is aknown fact that he is the slowest of all MDs in releasing albums..and now you say he is a perfectionist....and when I ask this throw stones at me and say what I talk trash. FYI, I did not add much here...It is all you said and keep saying it. IF Commenting on ARR, that too from your own statements brings IR vs ARR thing then I am not going to be responsible as I am not interested in bringing that issue here.
  
  What you feel trash may felt meaningful by somebody else. When I posted copied stuffs of ARR you posted the same thing. I don't think all others felt the same way!
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.168.223) on: Fri Feb 23 20:40:00 EST 2001
  
  comment;
  
  i peeped here to learn something. In fact I have been learning. You have posted such a beautiful, informative stuff above. If you guys are keen in discussing further, go ahead ignoring IR vs ARR thing.... I reiterate that I wasn't the person to bring this topic in and I am not interested in doing that here. I respect the knowledge you guys have on this subject...But remember mainly that this is not ARR thread. Don't keep comparing ARR with IR...then if not me somebody else may ask that!!
  
  
• From: nvd (@ 161.142.100.85) on: Fri Feb 23 20:52:57 EST 2001
  
  In fact, my real question of interest here is to evaluate IR's level of technicality in sound engineering with the ARR's as the basis (who actually commenced the evolution). For that matter, today's sound engineering technology. How well is IR using them, since he's already great in all other items in song composing.
  
  This don't necessarily mean that IR have to be compared to ARR in other aspects. thanx again.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Fri Feb 23 21:57:13 EST 2001
  
  Technicality...difficult topic. I can explain very little if you dont understand it. How many people here are into recoding? or have even jammed little bit with the synthesizer? I have seen people use words losely when I doubt if they really understand it. I dont want to cite examples, but it is our "common" practice to speak something when we know very little about it. I would not say something which I am not clear about BTW.
  Let me ask a very simple question. What do you people gain (musically) by comparing ARR and IR? Do you learn how you can be better technicians? And how practical is it to you people? Do you understand what gear a sound technician uses???
  ALL CRAP WORH A ZERO...
  And you all say that you want to educate yourself by way of arguing!!!! If you wanna learn, buy the gear, go through the instruction manual, record, experiment, and if you find that crap which ARR used that you are not able to get, then you ask "technical" questions here. If you know nothing, stop the crap.
  My humble request...
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.161.115) on: Sat Feb 24 15:44:03 EST 2001
  
  Hey Swamji;
  
  I don't agree with you. You find a mixture of people coming with all sorts of background. Many get lots of info by reading a good discussion. I donno why you shut the door bluntly. To hear the technical details there is no need to buy big equipments and instruction manuals. Many of us are just listeners and there is nothing wrong in knowing an inch extra. However, in the process of discussion people sometimes forget and they contradict their own statements later.
  
  OK! I wish any body can explain me this thing. What is real ARR's job. From the discussion above, I understood he is a great sound engineer. Then what is Sridhar's job...Can any one confirm whether ARR writes everything in the form of musical notes...I personally don't think so...Moreover, if he lets singers free making them to perform in their own way...Can any body confirm what is his actual job? I am just eager. No offence...just curious....
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.87.43) on: Sat Feb 24 18:04:29 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  ARR does the music, and Sridhar records it. ARR also knows the recording/mixing techniques and he uses it to his benefit. Whats the difficult part to understand here ??
  Swamiji..I guess people are just trying your patience :) But not everybody who wants to know about recording should get a Triton.If you say, it is good idea for anybody interested in music to learn a specific instrument then I would consider that a good advice. Anyways, recording/mixing is something anybody with college level physics should be able to understand. Just like aperture/exposure time are the basics of photography. But does not mean knowing these trivialises the job of a sound engineer.
  First of all, I dont know why IR should be a good sound engineer !!I got into this thread only to say that there are good IR albums and that there are ways to ameliorate bad recordings. Also, he has done very good acoustic recordings in many movies (eg. thEvar magan etc).
  
  

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