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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Dec 4 15:41:26 EST 2001
  
  Ramki,
  
  Thanks for that link.I'm sure everyone here will find that link useful.:)
  BTW, if you are looking for movie that contains best(and also most) pronounced songs look out for "Naam Iruvar namakku iruvar".It is difficult to find a single pronounciation blemish in these songs.Even YSR(he sang "Nadana kala raani" I think) takes Tamil to a new "level".
  Looks like KR is helpless and did it on the insistence of others.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Tue Dec 4 15:50:35 EST 2001
  
  Trend,
  
  Do you have any idea those fifty songs came in how many years compared to the current number? Thats why the voice is coming up and didnt come that time. I feel people are more aware and conscious about tamil that time than they are now.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Dec 4 16:05:57 EST 2001
  
  NCR,
  
  I was just exaggerating when I said 50.Actually I think they sang about 20-25 songs.Incidentally if I'm right these songs all came in late 80s to early 90s within 5-6 years.
  
  
• From: Stats:) (@ 161.150.2.250) on: Tue Dec 4 16:17:16 EST 2001
  
  This is a list of songs sung by Singers who would have never spoken tamil before(under ARRs music)
  
  Udit:kuLuvaaLile,Romeo aattam,soniya soniyaa,aiyoo pathikichu
  Ila arun:muthu muthu mazhai
  Kavitha poudwal: Bombay madras
  Sukhwindher:lucky lucky,thakka thaiya
  Sadhana: nenje nenje,swaasame,anbe idhu, snehidane,manasukkuL,azhage sugamaa, konjum mainakkaLe
  Asha: vennilla vennillaave,september maadham
  Sonu nigam-vaarayen thozhi
  Richa sharma:yaaro yaarodi
  
  Not even twenty songs :)
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Dec 4 16:56:29 EST 2001
  
  Lata's Arraro Arraro was at best passable. It wouldn't have got the mileage had it been somebody else singing it. Valaiosai Kalakalavena was filled with all kinds of Lataisms. Tamil took a leave for that song.
  
  Asha's Shenbagame was a hit. But compare that to the same song sung by Chitra and you will know how both pronuciations work.
  
  And the issue is not exclusively about pronunciation/knowledge of Tamil. The main issue is: IS THERE REALLY A SHORTAGE OF FINE, SUCCESSFUL,TRAINED IN TAMIL SINGERS THAT ONE HAS TO LOOK NORTH FOR TALENT??
  
  That's the crux of the debate. Encouraging other singers to try their hand at singing in Tamil is one thing. Doing so in a way which detrimental to qualified native singers is quite another.
  
  Let's recognise the worth and qualities of Tamil singers first. And let's stop praising even the most mediocre attempts by the imports as being exemplary!!
  
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Tue Dec 4 16:59:49 EST 2001
  
  some left overs;
  apache indian - love birds
  Udit -Lucky Lucky
  Asha Bhosle- September Madham
  
  I donno Stats wish to include malayalam singers..This would contribute to atleast 40-50% of ARR's songs.Will this matter for this discussion??
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Tue Dec 4 17:18:32 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  Udit didn't sing "Lucky Lucky".It was Sukhwinder Singh,SPB and S'Latha.
  
  "Asha Bhosle- September Madham "
  I could see this song in the list above.I don't think that would contribute 40-50% of ARR's songs.
  It could be true if you are intentionally keeping away from ARR's "well-pronounced" songs .
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Tue Dec 4 17:38:48 EST 2001
  
  Trend;
  
  Thnks for correcting..Yes it is Sukhwinder Singh..
  
  40-50% is with the inclusion of malayalam singers..do you agree on this at least?
  
  No..No..When Stats:-) gave his best statistics on ARR songs I just tried to give some left-overs. But basically, I do not want to pull any MD argument here. I am sure you can pick many from other MDs too.
  
  
• From: Stats (@ 63.11.166.228) on: Tue Dec 4 19:05:05 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo Apache Indian should sing for himself rite??You cant make SPB or KJY sing for him.
  
  Ladki ladki is included in my list as lucky lucky
  
  
• From: TNS (@ 203.199.248.69) on: Wed Dec 5 08:37:20 EST 2001
  
  UditEshwara in Kannedhire Thondrenal,ULLAM KOLLAI POGUTHEY song, Kumar sanu's Mannavan vandhanadi film song Sunnetha RAU'S Aadi paaru mangatha...Kay kay's songs in Minsarakanavu and 12b also Sammera's Sariya thavara...12b...There are many more numbers by Aliens to tamil.....TNS
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.40.187) on: Wed Dec 5 08:58:10 EST 2001
  
  Indhu,
  
  The other "ShenbagamE" is by Sunantha. Another wasted talent. Remember the hit song "mannavA mannavA" by her in "Walter Vetrivel".
  
  
• From: Thoduvaanam (@ 198.199.168.30) on: Wed Dec 5 10:02:11 EST 2001
  
  NCR:
  
  I am not sure whether one can make a tasteful jilebi with bad ingredients. I felt ingredients are related to taste. And also here the question is the origin of person making it. And now dont ask me do I care for how it is made or not. Take it easy
  
  Oops, here is a classic ambiguity.
  
  What I meant to know was the ingredients, that is the lyrics. I understand we agree that the product is good. My contention is, people would appreciate it better when you know what goes in as well, now that people need to make more effort to understand the song.
  
  I loved "Swasame" from Thenali. After the first few hearings, all I could understand from Sadhana Sargam was "Nadhigal illatha Arabu desam naan, Nile nadiyaga". I hope we understand the problem. I have to admit that Sadhana did a better job in Paarthale Paravasam.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Wed Dec 5 10:09:10 EST 2001
  
  Thoduvaanam,
  
  She exposes herself to be a bad prononcer in "snehidhane'. Nevertheless, the song is a hit. But both lyrics and the way it was sung was "irritable'. Especially, when she sings "Ayiviraledutthu, Olive ennai poosi, Sevaigal"..People like it(;-)))
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Wed Dec 5 10:48:37 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  "when she sings "Ayiviraledutthu, Olive ennai poosi, Sevaigal"..People like it(;-))) "
  
  The song was a hit doesn't mean people liked the way that line was pronounced.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Wed Dec 5 11:08:10 EST 2001
  
  "when she sings "Ayiviraledutthu, Olive ennai poosi, Sevaigal"..People like it(;-))) "
  
  What you are saying is exactly true in my case.I didn't like the song when I listened to it for the first few times.Then the above line you quoted hit me so hard I'd been glued to that line and I started cherishing this song.
  
  Today I listen to this song only for that line.The other 4-5 minutes of the song or the other aspects of the song doesn't matter to me.
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 5 11:09:34 EST 2001
  
  Can someone send me the words to Sadhana's song from Rhythm - that one which begins with"Galagalavena..." and goes to places in Tamil that I have never been before!!!
  
  People also liked Vaadi en Kappa Kizhgangey. Remember??
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Wed Dec 5 11:11:19 EST 2001
  
  Then the above line you quoted hit me so hard I'd been glued to that line and I started cherishing this song.
  
  Trend, Engeyo Poiteenga ;-)
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 5 11:14:25 EST 2001
  
  Kizhanggey. Sorry
  
  Fliflo, I am sure there are others who also wait for one specific line in a Sukhwinder song - and don't care much about the rest of it. Would you call this selective listening? Or is it like - "Hey, look! He got at least one line right!"
  
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 5 11:17:12 EST 2001
  
  Hello Hello Sorry Sorry -
  
  I wrongly addressed Fliflo in the earlier message. It was meant to be fro Trend.
  
  My sincere apologies to Fliflo!
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Wed Dec 5 11:22:11 EST 2001
  
  Indhu;
  
  I really donno what to say.May be trend, being a listener of this knid, may have a better perspective..Generally, I always had trouble with KJY's pronounciation of "rendu" as "randu". To have a deeper inshight listen to songs like
  "oomai nenjin sontham...." with a line "randu ullamum ondru serthathu.."
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 5 11:24:01 EST 2001
  
  Neel D,
  
  Thanks for the correction - Sunandha/Chitra. The Asha Shenbagame was not successful because it was flawlessly pronounced (it was not) but because it was a good tune AND there was the Novelty of Asha singing in Tamil for the first time under the baton of Illaiyaraja. That's all.
  
  Let's not get carried away, folks!
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Wed Dec 5 11:30:54 EST 2001
  
  Indhu,
  
  It's like this.There are people like me who likes a song for one line or for one golden pronounciation of Sadhana Sargam or Sukhwinder Singh or Udit Narayan.We are least bothered if ARR has an interesting rhythm or IR has an soothing interluce.We are the very very intelligent fans of music unlike lot of you guys here.
  
  The most intelligent or more intelligent fans than us are the people who identify or "label" people like us.These people are very generous in giving us the tag of "intelligent fans with intelligent taste".
  It's b'cos of these people(most intelligent) that music industry has some sanity today.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Wed Dec 5 11:31:00 EST 2001
  
  >>The Asha Shenbagame was not successful because it was flawlessly pronounced (it was not) but because it was a good tune<<
  :-))
  So how come Indhu, when the same happens with an ARR song, u can be so sure it's not bcos it's a good tune but bcos it's erosion of culture/language? This question is asked in good spirit and not with the intention of starting an MD bashing session, ok. :)
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Dec 5 12:12:02 EST 2001
  
  Thanks for painting the rest of us as "most intelligent" I am sure you meant every word of that phrase, Trend. Please accept my sincere appreciation for your (no doubt) sincere sentiments.
  
  I did not single out the Shenbagame tune to say that IR tunes were more palatable/acceptable to ARR's even if the pronunciation was bad. It was an example of how a melody can be appealing but on closer inspection of the words (the WAY the melody is articulated) the melody loses its vitality. If words/pronunciations were not all that important WhyNot then perhaps there should just be hummings and strummings of the compositions - wouldn't you say?
  
  I have never knocked ARR's tunes per se. And no I am not about to take sides in the IR- ARR polarisation. That's petty.
  
  Let me say this, however: I don't listen to a song just for a line or just for a word. A song is an "experience" - and for it to be sensory - all aspects of it making have to come together. Words, Tune, Voice, Orchestration and Pronunciation. Let's say I like my Panjamirtham with all the 5 ingredients. If it only has 3 then it will not be called Panjamirtham, would it?
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.234) on: Wed Dec 5 12:21:53 EST 2001
  
  Indhu,
  
  "Thanks for painting the rest of us as "most intelligent" I am sure you meant every word of that phrase,"
  You are welcome.
  Oh Yes!I meant it.
  I meant it with as much (if not more)seriousness and intensity as when I called myself very very intelligent.
  
  

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