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WHAT IS THIS ????

Topic started by NagasubramaniaN (@ fw.baan.nl) on Thu Dec 17 03:07:06 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi,
this week KUNGUMAM has one ad. which says this ----------

ISAIGNANI ILAYARAJA ISAIYIL PAADA UNGALUKKU ORU VAAYPPU
ONRALLA IRANDALLA 700 KUNGUMAM VAASAKARKALUKKU !
VIVARAM ADUTHTHA ITHAZIL

Ennayyaa ithu ?? onnum puriyalai !
NagasubramaniaN

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Swami (@ 129.107.61.25) on: Mon Dec 21 12:14:19 EST 1998
  
  It will not happen next time Mr. Ravi.
  
  
• From: ratna (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Dec 21 12:26:14 EST 1998
  
  Srikanth-- you have a reasonably good website, and your album was passable ... you can be proud of this stuff. But then, does not mean that when you give a ridiculously bloated number for MSV's movies, (you said 1300, right?) we have to believe you. Most of your postings reflect this attitude. Your musical knowledge does *not* have anything to do with your postings on IR/ARR.
  
  And I am with Silent_Observer on one thing .. you DID say that you would post all IR songs for the next 10 movies on your website in response to somebody challenging you.
  
  
• From: ratna (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Dec 21 12:48:02 EST 1998
  
  Addendum:
  
  When a Srikanth can feel proud of having a website,album etc etc. just imagine how proud a Raja can feel .... you get my point folks?
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02958.mayo.edu) on: Mon Dec 21 13:12:55 EST 1998
  
  Hi everybody
  
  Couldn't stay out of this discussion any more.
  
  Firstly, to all those people who beleive that Srikanth hates IR, you are sadly mistaken. He sincerely respects Raja for what he is and what his capabities are. I will add that I feel the same way about Raja and infact consider him as my manaseega guru at all times.
  
  However, this does not mean that people who truly respect Raja should accept all his musical compositions are absolutely worthy of him. Please note what I am saying! Sometimes Raja inspite of his capabilities produces stuff which is not worthy of him (look at the respect I give to this guy's music). During such instances if Raja is criticised, it is only with the genuine intention that he keep up with the high standards (set by him and some of his worthy predecesors). On the same token if ARR is praised for something which is worthy, it should be understood as trying to encourage fresh, new talent with creativity. This is not to say that ARR has not composed rubbish. He most definitely has. No one should feel bad/guilty to call a 'spade a spade' or 'a rubbish composition as rubbish' immaterial of who it comes from.
  
  I do agree that one cannot soley base the musical quality of any song/album on its popularity in the general market. Now the dilemma is how do we judge the quality of an album especially with some of our so called music critics (DS Ramanujam etc..) are also baised or fautly in their comments/judgements.
  
  The only answer I have is find somebody who is unbiased and who is respected by people in the music industry as having impeccable values when evaluating a composer/performer etc... I know this is not easy and hence as an alterative we have to fall on people who we know are atleast knowledgable in music and who beleive in creativity and have an interest in improving musical standards (at the very least does not want standards to drop). IMO Srikanth although not perfect as a critic (nobody can be) has some of the above qualities and should not be shunned but listened to and questioned critically.
  
  Now finally regarding this issue about Raja doing an album with 700 singers. Is this a gimmick? Frankly, I feel that the effect one can achieve with a chorus of more than 50-100 singers max. cannot be differentiated by most normal people from a chorus of 700 singers. With good recording techniques even a chorus of 50 singers can proabably ( I am guessing) give the effect of 700 singers (the disired effect). So I feel part of the commotion is actually a kind of gimmick which does not necessarily mean it is bad IF THE END PRODUCT IS WORTHY.
  Regarding the symphony--this is really a sore spot--I dont even want to go near this. But I guess Raja is answerable to every fan who questions this (symphony) since he acknowledged/accepted the praises showered on him before its release.
  
  Before I conclude, I still beleive, (like Srikanth) that Raja's compositions after mid eighties have been increasingly more theoritical and more predictable. There are definitely exceptions and really unpredictable scores and rare glimpses of the genius (like the unexpected turn in Rakkamma.. in Thalapathi) but sadly they have been few. I can give a whole lot of examples for his predictability but it is difficult to explain over the net. I guess this is what is keeping Srikanth also from answering the question about predictability/theoritical approach.
  
  I just cannot end without commenting on I24 hours. Granted they do look like a 'compilation of fillers in Echo cassettes', but these fillers were undoubtedly more enjoyable musically rich and very creative. So based on this judgement I24 hours is musically worthy. Offcourse some compositions are far better than some others but having not seen the visuals for which this was created I would defer any critical judgements, especially since I know Raja is the master when it comes to BGM and nobody in Indian Film music industry has been as successful as Raja in scoring BGMs.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Dec 21 13:26:01 EST 1998
  
  PEACE !
  I was the one who challenged Srikanth to post the next 10 unreleased songs of IR on his web site. It was a silly challenge and it was equally silly on Srikanth's part to have accepted it !!! So I withdraw it !!! Srikanth only said that he could predict the rest of IR's music in a song if he heard the first few bars. So my challenge was technically wrong. I still agree that it was rash on Srikanth's part to claim something like that - because IMHO not only Srikanth, but everyone else is so influenced by IR's style that all their so-called 'predictions' would inevitably sound just like IR would conceive it. That is why we might be lulled into believing that we can predict IR's music. Anyway that is not the issue here and I will rake it up in the right thread again :-)
  
  Since I am am pro-IR, I have nothing against Srikanth if he is pro-ARR (whether he admits to it or not). If Srikanth can bash IR technically, I too am capable (ok, to a lesser extent) of bashing ARR technically. All of that is acceptable in the DF. But why do you want to bash each other ?
  
  Krishna:
  Oruvar indha forumla sonnaru, "ARR has brought pure bass and percussion into TFM". Annikke I wanted to quit DF. Where did all those objectivists/rationalists/socialists/communists/technicians all go when such stupid, yes STUPID, statements were made in the DF ? Naan badhil sollala. It is unfair and it is illogical to pass such meaningless remarks. But still, it is somebody's opinion and we must counter that opinion if need be - not the person himself. Srikanth might be an IR basher, but atleast he is not a Srinath/Krishna/Silent_Observer/ratna basher. Let us enjoy bashing ARR and his stupid music (one sec, he also has given good music, let us bash ONLY his stupid music :-)) Let us not get upset by someone (Srikanth) who is as adept as ourselves in idol bashing :-)
  
  BTW, Srikanth is not obliged to maintain an IR channel in his site. He is not doing it for us. He is doing it because of his appreciation for IR's music. Of course, all of this is IMHO. And one more thing, I think Srikanth's album is definitely much above average. I can immediately recall 3 (Iravu Padagan, Ilam Kaalai Velaiyil, Podhumappa) out of the 5 songs in that album, though I have listened to it only 2-3 times so far and that too over a month ago. But I wish he would opt for IR's water-tight style of composing and orchestration rather than ARR's inge-konjam-masala-ange-konjam-uppu samayal style of composing !!! Sathiyama, kaasu koduththu vaanguven, unga albuma :-) Good luck Srikanth !
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Mon Dec 21 13:36:03 EST 1998
  
  Dear Ratna and others
  The reason I put about myself here is just becos people get at me personally, failing to argue with valid points,
  
  WHY THE HELL TALK ABOUT ME PERSONALLY, IF YOU HAD READ MY EARLIER POSTINGS HERE I HAVE NEVER BEEN PERSONAL WITH ANY INDIVIDUAL, I HAVE NEVER HURTED ANYONE PERSONALLY,
  ABUSE MY THOUGHTS ON MUSIC - WE WILL HAVE A FIGHT , TRY TO GET WHAT I MEANT. STOP ABUSING! ME AS A PERSON.
  
  IF YOU CANNOT ARUGE WITH POINTS ATLEASE STOP THIS PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME.
  
  
  AS ON DATE : THE FACT IS
  RAJA WAS GREAT THERE IT ENDS, TELL ME 5 SONGS OF RAJA WHICH REACHED OUR EARS AS IT IS USED TO BE FROM HIM, THIS YEAR.
  
  
  BTW:
  Raja feeling proud :
  No one can compose like Raja - do you assume that I do not know this fact. What do you mean - crictics has to talk only after learning all the aspects of music to critize - What to say?
  If so there would no crictic in the world.
  your argument is childish. "kuzantahi thanamana argument".
  
  I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS ON THE SYMPHONY, WHY IT IS NOT RELEASED, I WILL START A THREAD AFTER THIS SESSION COOLS DOWN.
  
  
  Your musical knowledge does *not* have anything to do with your postings on IR/ARR.
  
  100% true, I never told that it has to do something with my postings. Belive it or not I discuss here just as fan.
  
  My website is a product of my musical knowledge. Where I give due respect to the great masters of TFM.
  
  Guys - finally, everyone has the right to post against my posing here - I welcome you, but no one has to right to talk about my personal issues like my web site, my so called minimal music knowledge etc. please stop this.
  
  Srikanth
  I am not running away this time.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ sdwwwgw01.sd.nmp.nokia.com) on: Mon Dec 21 13:41:09 EST 1998
  
  Hi Shashi,
  
  We in TFM-DF know Srikanth only thru his interactions here. We do not know him personally as you may probably know. I have seen you sort of mediating earlier between Srikanth and others to cool down things.
  
  And I remember seeing in one of the threads (theoretical music) that you guys had discussion before starting the thread. That is why I assume you guys may have some more interactions than we do with him.
  
  To me, I have found you too knowledgeable and at the same time I have found you being unbiased in your comments. Tell me this - have you been the center of controversy OR if your discussions have always led to fights ?? I am sure the answer is NO. At least not to this extent.
  
  But with Srikanth, I only get the feeling that he has had some terrible personal experience with IR and cannot digest the words like dheivam etc. with that feeling in the background !!!
  
  I have always been unbiased, neutral and non controversial here, AND this is the feeling I get.
  
  I feel now it is now left to Srikanth to master his ways of expression. !!
  
  Since you entered the picture to settle things _ I am asking you this - Before asking some of fellow TFM-DFers to do something on there behalf - please look at things in a objective manner - take a look at all the threads involved - and state specific examples, AND ask the sides involved to change!
  That will be more objective oriented.
  
  In fact I in one of the threads stated things specifically about IR's songs and Srikanth did not care to reply. (if I am not talking sense - he should explain it to me !!. I wont know it otherwise).
  
  Once again I am stating this - May be IR's songs are very predictable these days - but people need some amount of predictability too to identify with a song !!
  
  May be you guys know a lot more (I am not sarcastic here!) and can read it easily. To me I felt ecstatic even with IR's latest set of albums ! How do you think - a lot of repetitive ARR's songs are mega hits - people can identify with them easily.
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss03.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Dec 21 13:55:38 EST 1998
  
  Mukund:
  Even I had this impression that Srikanth might have had some personal negative experience with IR and/or some very positive experience with ARR. But I felt it might be like asking someone their persnal details, which IMO is not in keeping with the protocols of th DF. That is why I never queried him on that !
  
  Shashi:
  Ultimately, every single musical note is planned and thought out. In fact more by ARR than by IR. Don't you think that is what is theoretical ? The impression I get from ARR's music is he his thought process goes like "Aanh, inga oru drum roll potta nalla irukkum, hmmmm inga oru islamiya/christuva/hindu humming kodutha emotionala irukkum, apparum, anga oru vedigundu satham pottu adhu kooda oru glass odayara saththam pota attractive-a irukkum..." Therefore, I feel it is ARR who is predictable and theoretical in his approach. Yenna difference, IR follows musical theory and ARR follows marketing theory. Again, this is not emotional bashing, this is studied bashing. It really makes as much sense to me as your "Theoretical approach of IR" theory probably does to you !!!
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Mon Dec 21 14:02:21 EST 1998
  
  Thanks Guys,
  Mukund: Thanks for bringing up my negative side, all my posting ends in arguments or a dog fight.
  our good friends here like Srinath, Shashi come to my rescue. Thanks guys,
  
  Belive it or not I talk more about Raja to non-Raja fans. Especially north indians.
  Yesterday I saw a the new Startrek movie, in certain senti scenes, I was boasting to my wife,that score would be much better it is done by Raja, Thalivar bgms are really extraoridinary.
  
  Ok Let me put my side : the fact is Techincally ARR's is like a fast food. He does some quickees which is nice to eat as snacks. I like fast food.
  
  Raja's whereus is a good vazai illai virundhu, it has many flavors, has all the elements of a virundhu. I like this also but
  I am not able to accept a low quality virudhu from a Ace cook, for example songs from Raja this year are no where near his standards.
  Just bcos from Saravana bhavan I cannot accept rotten food.
  
  Arr has also done some good things to TFM, people fail to accept this fact and just bash him for the sake of bashing. Since I have seen & heard both the kinds of music I am not able to acccept this.
  Also Mukund : I am not able to accept the devigam or any other jargons for Raja .
  It is like this, if you ask a hard core carntic music rasiga about KJY - he will be ranked last, does not mean kjy is bad, other have impressed them more than KJY is the fact.
  
  In future - I will try to make sure that my arguments does not end in cold war.
  
  Thanks
  Srikanth
  
  
  
  
  
  

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