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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: SK (@ 203.197.141.179) on: Fri Feb 23 11:35:28 EST 2001
  
  Flifo,
  I agree.
  "Nettrikann thirappinum kuttram kuttrame" . I am trying hard to remeber the film's name. I am 100% sure that an article carrying this came in Kunkumam magazine months back. The topic started with a rumour that Kamal hasan and ARR (Hey Ram time's story) are in tug of war.
  
  It's a nice idea make MDs see what we are writing. At times, we write senselessly.
  
  I beleive that you will agree to what I am going to say now.
  
  IR's 70% of compositions and folk based. Isn't it?
  Now for many..I say many song he is not the owner.
  Eg.
  "AAyiram Thamarai mottukale"
  "Nalla velli kezhamai illa"
  "Mankuile poonkuile"
  "Oththa ruba tharen" --original version is a often repeated song in vayalum vazhvum prog in DD (1989---1995 or so - after that I stoped watching DD)
  and many other.
  
  No.. I am not accusing. What I want to say is IR spent his child hood, youth and most part of his life in the villages, so its quite natural for him to use the songs which merged with his blood. You also can't find out who created these songs. People just sing them on they way to work or at the time they work on fields.
  
  This peace is true as IR's brother GA himself has said several time in several places about the inspirations - Resent one is Naiyandi Darbar - Vijay TV)
  
  I want to say that, the same is the case with ARR, who spent his childhood with MDs like IR, MSV, salil chowdary and many and also he should have listened to their songs many-many time. So his compositions bearing the resembles of oldies is also natural.
  
  So, bashing ARR alone is a bit cruel.
  
  Comments.
  
  (I might not continue in this forum after some time as, I might not be getting chance to access inet.)
  
  
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 12:13:53 EST 2001
  
  SK; don't say that ARR is alone is bashed. I donno how long you visit this forum. IR bashing is the worst ever happened here. More than music IR was bashed for his personal things. Bashers go silent after getting an appropriate reply (How Pak guns are often made silence by Indian forces in the border) But this is only temporary. It is going to start again. But, at the same time Let me emphasize some thing. Typing 'what is believed' to be copied stuffs is no wrong, as 1. people kept informed 2. People discuss the detail descriptions of music making 3. People bring out others. Being supportive to one kind of musician do u know how much u have made me to learn. I know people after reading some crucial stuffs have mixed or in other words have "masala feeling'. Let the process continue...Ultimately we are the consumers who pay from our pockets..(not for mp3 consumers)
  
  (Hope you get sooner Intnt access)..
  
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 12:31:01 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  Talking of percentages,I think most of us know 99% of ARR's compositions.But that is not the case with IR.There are a lot of unexplored movies/songs of his.
  If we don't bother to explore these songs/movies, then your percentage theory/formula falls flat.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 12:43:09 EST 2001
  
  Trend;
  
  I agree. But what makes one not to give a look. If you hear a music and at the right moment you feel an identical stuff from old songs then you thrive to bring it out. If you don't try then there are 3 possibilities (or more?);
  
  1. one hasn't heard the song at all.
  2. that hasn't provoked any old thoughts in your mind
  3. you get carried away by the song and not to see the depth in it.
  
  In a given circumstance, the easiest way to compare is take first 10 movies of each MD and try to compare. I guess my theory still holds good and for sure, IR comes out with flying colors.
  
  Take first 10 movies of IR, Deva,ARR, MSV Sirpi (has he done 10 at all. Don't include MD's who are lying below 10... See who wins!
  
  One biggest advantage/disadvantage is there were innumerable releases of music cassettes around the world so far. Just one guy or for that matter a group of guys is not enough to evaluvate. But still, an ensemble of MD lovers can be a good approximate. in zeroth and first order approximations, my theory wins...
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 13:00:12 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  Since we are talking about the overall career till date,I don't know why we should consider only the first 10 movies.
  The initial creative output is just one of the factors for analyzing MD's greatness.Sustaining the trend,so that a album doesn't go as low as to the point of being anonymous is essential too.
  
  Regarding your point 1)one hasn't heard the song at all.
  This depends on the fans' reverence towards their heroes based on reputation(say last few works at least).I think there's only one unheard ARR album i.e "Andhimandharai".As for IR,I think you would agree with me there are atleast much more than that.
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 13:01:21 EST 2001
  
  Gotta go briefly.I will address your 2 & 3 later.
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ 139.72.120.21) on: Fri Feb 23 13:15:05 EST 2001
  
  Y'day,we were watching "Mella tharanthadu kanavu...",the BGM of this movie(Title piece,Guitar piece when Mohan sits near by a lake,MSV sings in background when Radha listens her voice in Tape)...It seems ARR has got inspired of this piece for his recent album "Tenali".The first line of the song ends with "^^^ talaattu vandachha."(Sorry,I am not a tamil guy).This song is heavily inspired from MTK'S BGM.
  
  Krishna
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 14:23:10 EST 2001
  
  Trend;
  
  I told for a simple analysis. Overall career analysis may be more accurate but doing that is going to be a very big task. I agree with you on analysing problem with first 10 movies. I donno how well it stands good when you compare a MD with 10 movies to a MD who has done 400 movies. The time period varies, the songs/year varies. Limitation can be brought either in terms of number or in terms of time. I mean only counting the movies for the same 10 years of time. But old MDs like MSV will be left. One other good way is to increase the sampling. Instead of first 10 movies, one can go for first 25. This would certainly a good analysis. Only problem is extending from 10 to 25 will exclude many MD's who lie between 10 and 25. However, the numbers we get may be more reliable.
  
  I agree with your point on 1st point. There is a difference between songs been a hit and songs been heard. I am not talking about hit songs, rather we include everything. Anthimantharai...is one exceptional. By the by, the movie has any songs at at all. I think there were no songs in the movie (or probably just 1). IR's unheard movies are not going to be countless. Some movies are not heard but still songs are familiar. Going on that count, these movies hardly going to make a biig impact on final value...So the best way is going by first 25 movies. I judge the result to be of folowing trend;
  
  Originality;
  
  
  IR>>MSV>>ARR>>Deva>SAR~Sirpi
  
  Recycyling (Capability??)
  
  Sirpi/SAR>Deva>ARR>>MSV>>IR
  
  Comments welcome!!
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 14:47:25 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  I don't know why you quickly put IR in the first place ahead of ARR.
  
  I haven't listened to lot of MSV.So,I don't know about where MSV stands.My gut feeling tells me he could be more original than both IR and ARR.
  
  When it comes to inspirations from English songs,since IR composed a lot of folk songs, I would expect an avid listener of Country music to comment on IR's style in folk songs.I don't listen to Country music at all barring one or two numbers of Shania Twain.
  
  BTW,Unga Originality listla KR and YSR kaanave kaanom!Enna Aachu!!Ungalukkaga venumna naan fill pannren
  
  IR>>KR=YSR>>MSV>>ARR>>Deva>SAR~Sirpi
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 15:05:31 EST 2001
  
  Trend;
  
  My judgement is totally my personal opinion; To put MSV first, I think one must be a master of pre-MSV period tamil & other language songs (including english). I am not, and hence MSV stays next to IR. I am eager to know your judgement.
  
  Unga fillingukku romba thanks. Basic criteria of atleast 25 films puts KR&YSR away.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 15:12:50 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  Putting someone below someone without knowing about him properly is not a good thing to do.But his reputation would encourage me to put him in the first place.
  Since we both know what we are doing,let's leave MSV out of this.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 15:15:45 EST 2001
  
  Continuing
  
  (Life time music)
  
  Why I choose IR readily. The reason is here. Let's assume IR has inspired 200 songs out of his 4000 then th count is
  
  1- 200
  ---- x 100 = 95%.
  4000
  
  200 is a very big number. The count may not exceed 100.
  
  in ARR's case, assuming 25 songs( For you guys I count the least) out of 300 songs he ever made then
  
  1- 50
  -- x 100 = 91%
  300
  
  My count is defintely biased towards ARR. Carefully listening one can bring out atleast 50 songs out from his list. More over, many hindi songs are just repetion of tamil songs. The count goes further up.
  
  IR has a steady, strong win here.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 15:19:42 EST 2001
  
  In the above, the count is typed wrongly as 50. Read as 25. However, the % what I have given corresponds to 25 songs.
  
  Let's not leave MSV out....Let's welcome people who can bring out his inspirations....
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 15:25:53 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  Watch your denominator.I don't think we know at least 1500 of IR's songs well to comment it has been inspired or not.I'm sure he hasn't composed 4000 songs.ARR's total songs in Tamil without dubbed songs would be 200.
  
  Also,I don't expect you to be generous and be biased towards ARR.This may be a disservice to IR.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Feb 23 15:29:43 EST 2001
  
  
  There would be less number of people who knows MSV's earlier compositions.There would be even lesser number of people who would know his predecessor's songs to see if he has been inspired.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 15:34:32 EST 2001
  
  Trend; I am sure we have heard more than 1500..may be 3000..Let's see what people say. Just go to Rajangham website and see how many tamil movies have we know. I donno how we compensate for Kannada,mallu, Telugu songs..May be they come under unknown catgory..We can leave out 35%, means 1400 songs (in total), I would say.
  
  
  If I reduce ARR's denominator the % age is going to decrease rather fast compared to IR's. Going under any count IR will be proved more original..
  
  

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