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IR and Jayalalitha - Similarities

Topic started by Pozhudhu pogadhavan (@ 12.92.217.110) on Fri May 11 18:36:47 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

As all of you well known about the arrogance of them.
There are some more: Both were at their peak during 1991 to 1993. Their drastic downfall started in 1994,1995. Any more thoughts?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Wed May 16 06:45:48 EDT 2001
  
  >>>I want also songs and picture to reach my heart atleast once in a while. You want it only for ears and eyes. <<<<
  
  KK..now we can really go to the roots why some songs appeal to some people and not to others !
  
  People can be broadly classified for our discussion now into Visual Thinkers and Verbal Thinkers :
  
  People like Bharat and me are more visually inclined (thinking patterns are more visual)....so music that we hear touches our heart (i.e. invokes an emotion). The emotion that is evoked is processed by our brain through our imagination as visuals. People like us when we hear brilliant music literally start imagining great landscapes or fantastic song and dance sequences.....it can be put down like this :
  
  Music (IR/ARR) > Heart (Emotion) > Brain + Imagination = Visual
  
  People like you are more Verbal Thinkers and when you hear the same piece of music, it touches your heart and the emotion that is evoked is tranlated by your brain into verbal descriptions and analysis (this also requires the power of imagination)..it can be put down like this :
  
  Music (IR/ARR) > Heart (Emotion) > Brain + Imagination = Verbal
  
  If we both can meet at the common ground of Emotion..then we can understand each other well. But the problem is our Brain immediately interprets our emotions and we start having difference of opinions.
  
  Why we don't like ARR / IR's music :
  
  Because our personal preferences and past habits of listening have built pattterns into our brains and anything that falls outside this pattern doesn't gel with our brain and so it is rejected...best way is to get the Heart into picture...shut the brain for a while and go with the feel of the music be it ARR, IR, copied, not copied, original, cut&pasted etc. etc....if there is passion and feeling in the music, you will feel it too and appreciate it too..of course later you can switch on your brain and bring out your analysis of the good and bad features.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed May 16 07:25:55 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician,
  
  good points brought out by you.
  
  i believe maarimazhai was like a "one day wonder" when compared to the reach of muqala (or) oorvashi (or) shakkalakka baby (or) chikku bukku railu.
  
  yes!! i totally agree the theory "...for an Ad visual should say 50%". It is because Ads' motive is to push a product into people to get profit and growth, whereas film and film-music's motive is not a uni-dimensional like ads. They have art, social awarness, entertainment and hell a lot of other stuff as their motive (mind u, ads may have entertaining stuff in them, but as u mentioned they are for capturing the attention to fulfil the motive). Since i believe Film and Film-music is like what i say i belong to the "verbal" category mentioned by you. I don't visualise any song of GR, SMS, MSVs, IR, ARR etc. If i feel(heart) that i like it, then i like it. This might be a reason (a criple, from your point of view) for me not liking certain songs of ARR because what i believe is ARR prepares his song having an eye on the visual effect (the Ad way).
  
  Finally cosmician, personal preferences, past habits are more due to heart, the very aspect liking is Heart's requirement executed by Brain. So IMHO we need an open-mind(not constrained by a heart) to go with the feel of the music be it ARR, IR, copied, not copied, original, cut&pasted etc. etc....
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 172.134.179.155) on: Wed May 16 10:21:35 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician,
  
  the one abt visual and verbal categorization was marvellous, i could'nt have said it more articulately...
  
  kk u r arguing for the wrong topic... i was strictly sticking to songs section of a movie alone and a MD's expectations when he composes it.
  
  The point that i was trying to make was. a directory sort of builds up a credt history with the MD. ARR is more particular that his songs r well visualized bcoz thats how his work is getting manifested to the public... he may sell his songs in audio tapes..but unless we r badly missing the point movieon screen is the final product.
  
  so if arr notices his songs badly picturised or loosely connected with the movie or to be more pertinent shown so badly enugh that the song sequence is interesting only because of it audio content then ARR wud sure feel dissapointed bcoz its no more a team effort. it will look as if arr is the only contributor towards making the song a sucess. he will feel that the director after getting thje song from arr just decided to make a video for the sake of it....and left it at that.
  
  instead of working for directors like this arr can make is own songs in a private alm\bum and sit in front of a handicam and sing and make videosalso there wud be no difference..
  
  kk u have to understand... times have changed if not for nostralgics like us..songs like "solai kuyile" wudnt evenm make an impact now....
  
  u have a preference for audio medium only and hence thats what u think u'r heart wants... i want to see the video also being made good. bcoz thats what compliments a song well!
  
  otherwise i wud only think bad abt arr/IR's marketing strategy
  
  finally people like ratchsan ....plz dont make it evident that u lack knowldge... some time s critisism is more like bitcching and thats bad...
  
  bye
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Wed May 16 11:10:32 EDT 2001
  
  I am not against good visuals. I love maniratnam's way of picturising. Mostly it blends with the movie & storyline. Shankar does lot of gimmicks, though few of them are good. Also Kathir and the likes. I never said, I need cheap visuals.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Wed May 16 11:20:40 EDT 2001
  
  As far as film songs goes visual is very very important, If you take old songs, it will be more dramatic (Sivaji singing with lots of emotion, (at times his lip movement make me think he is eating:), with less visuals.
  Mds were able to cater to them, there were also good outdoor shots by sridhar, mgr etc, but still drama played a big role. Songs were acted like dramas.Visuals were framed for the songs.
  
  But things changed, visuals were planned ahead.
  This become more prominent in the 80's. People like Barathi raja, Mani ratham have contributed more to this trend.
  They worked with the composers to get music based on their shots, they planned it very well. Score were framed for the visuals.
  Composers also worked well with the directors on this., a good director tells the MD about the scene ahead.
  They clearly have a plan, they know what they are going to shoot, I can take ManiRatham for example, I have already mentioned this here,
  in the movie Anjali, take the song "Vanam enaku" , it is a happy song sung by kids but in the second bgm Ir
  wonderfully adds a guitar solo in a minor scale kind of feel to get some emotion, when I heard the tape I was really thinking
  about this part, why he added this....how will maniR direct this piece, finally i just stood up when I saw the the movie
  "Revathi thinks about Anjali in between the song for few seconds, this score is placed so perfectly"
  Shanker also plans ahead, there are no gimmicks,
  (movie making itself a gimmick). He things differently thats all.
  
  
• From: arai drouser senthil (@ 207.188.29.248) on: Wed May 16 12:52:22 EDT 2001
  
  "People like Barathi raja, Mani ratham have contributed more to this trend"
  
  Don't forget to add (just because they did'nt use ARR).... Mahendran and BaluMahendra were pioneers in this trend.......
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Wed May 16 12:55:52 EDT 2001
  
  those were just examples,
  Reason i put them was they survived regardless of md they worked with.
  
  I not giving an oscar speech to include all of them :)
  
  
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed May 16 13:39:53 EDT 2001
  
  mahendran and balu mahendra made picturization of songs look interesting... but it was manirathnam in the late 80's who made songs in movies independent and gave a music video look to them "agni natshatram" which is regarded as a landmark movie with regards to song picturization and began a new era for cinematographers and editors... shankar is just taking it to another level... look at some of theshots in "shakalaka baby" those were shot with high dimension, sophisticated camera which capture motion at a high rate... the sort of B&W scenes where sushmita dances in front of a door!!
  
  bye
  bharath
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Wed May 16 13:43:12 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath, good point,
  but I have issue here, in agni natshatram
  the song dance sequence for rajathi raja song is a remake of MJ's thriller.
  check both of them.
  
  
• From: polappu (@ 216.253.102.3) on: Wed May 16 14:25:43 EDT 2001
  
  kk,
  I think Shankar thinks different for the sake of thinking different, there is no flow to it,
  its kind of forcing yourself to comeup with something different.
  Having music videos in movies is a marketing gimmick, they are movie previews
  with free spots on TV, have nothing to contribute to the movie as a whole...
  MR does it just right, Shankar takes it to the next level and makes it cheesy.
  Looks like the quality of a song is judged by how well it is
  picturised(good cinematography, dance moves, editing etc,.. just like a music video) than how well it gels with the flow of a movie.
  It used to be 'movies for songs', now it is movies for music videos?
  IMHO, this is a disturbing trend.
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed May 16 15:23:50 EDT 2001
  
  comment:
  
  I agree with you! I have a personal copy of thriller video and have seen it a million times. I have been screaming abt this to my frnds for a decade. I am glad that this fact is quite known.
  I can point out all the instances or moves which r inspired by thriller. Karthik, prabhu deva and co just lacked the ghost make up
  
  similarly anjali's "something something" also had steps lifted from "beat it"!
  
  bye
  bharath
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed May 16 15:31:39 EDT 2001
  
  polappu!
  
  you have over read shankar to the point of anticipating that he has urges to do desparately do somthing different! I agree that cheesiness is sometimes overwhelming but delibrately thinking differently is not a fault and it only means that atleast 1 objective is defined
  
  i would call "azhagaana ratchasi", "patchai kiligal" "telephonemani" "usilampatti"... "columbus" " kathalikkum pennin kaigal" all being creative and different without every being cheesy and they dont have special effects overdrive.
  
  plus ur comment
  
  //"picturised(good cinematography, dance moves, editing etc,.. just like a music video) than how well it gels with the flow of a movie.
  It used to be 'movies for songs', now it is movies for music videos? IMHO, this is a disturbing trend" //
  
  well IMHO, songs r totally artificial and unrealistic in movies.. its native to india and since we are brought up seeing such things we think its Indian. I disagree with that. I prefer moving towards hollywood style of making movies without songs... otherwsie we will go the bollywood trash way.
  
  So songs in movies by definition do not go well with the flow of the movie. Once that compromise has been made in including them. I wudnt mid it if emphasis is on the quality of picturization.. so as to act as a replacement for our lack of MTV like music videos from individual albums
  
  bye
  bharath
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.67) on: Wed May 16 16:03:24 EDT 2001
  
  >>"but it was manirathnam in the late 80's who made songs in movies independent and gave a music video look to them <<
  
  You are right there Bharath...Mani being an engineer/educated made the difference and Hollywood was the inspiration for Mani...like he introduced ARR who caused a storm, he decided to use PC Sriram as his unconventional cinematographer (a film institute failure bcos of his unusual photography!) and dance master Sundaram's young son - a talented Jacko freak and fan none other than Prabhu Deva ! as his (you will find him as a side dancer in the "Raaja" song choreographer to give the urban and youth feel to his film for the audience at whom it was targeted...Mani also was studying Spielberg's and Lucas' techniques and marketing methods...along with GV (his MBA brother), he brought it into the TF world.
  
  Needless to say the cinematographer, choreographer and musician made their respective impacts in the film taking Tamil Films to the next level of..shall we say westernisation ?
  
  Actually, having songs in our films is a very smart move. Apart from satisfying the music and dance thirst that is in-built in our culture...songs are what our films are remembered by...so when a Director has a great story, all efforts are made by producers also to ensure that the musical score is fantastic and well moulded into the story...this ensures the film a long life in the audience's memory and easier to convince distributors to buy the rights...and imagine the profits they make by selling the rights to TV channels and recording companies !
  
  

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