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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Wed Oct 1 21:15:28 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  Back to my point.. I did not convey my opinion like Boyz is only for City Bred, but my opinion was It will not have the impact towards the non-city bred, under-facilitated areas.
  
  Again: Experimenting is not bad, but probably taking advise from a wrong person is not acceptable.
  
  Jag:
  I understand the time. I surely know it is expensive.
  
  But IR has been always to the masses (TFM) in general, so it is expensive to cater only one area. Alas he is a genius who can do a lot, but it is surprising he did not find a cost-effective method!!
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Wed Oct 1 21:18:22 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  There is nothing with the thought for installation of good systems. I totally agree.
  
  I still remember in trichy Jeans was released in two theatres, but Cauvery(one of the theatres) installed DTS or Dolby i forget, but that was the one where people flocked... so it is a right direction.
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Wed Oct 1 21:27:49 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  
  I dont think Deep Forest and Enigma fall under what you call NEw-Age.
  
  
  Enya?? I thought she just sand vocal chords which were so relaxing.
  
  Deep Forest, Jean Michel Jarre, Enigma are groups that use beats heavily!. I mean HEAVILY!!!! Atleast ARR uses Sivamani sometimes like the song "Thiruvallikeni Rani" which has aweome oercussio. But Enigma and Deep Forest use completely synthesized loops and drums beats.
  
  
  You have made your post in such a way that new age people are soo noble for their aversion to loops. If that is what New Age is to you, I am happy Enigma and Deep Forest dont fall into that genre :)
  
  I might classify them into techno-ambience with major push on ambience. I am currently listening to Harris Jayaraj's Arasatchi and in particular "Irupathu vayasula" you can see how much he has relied on soothing keyboard chords to give an ambient feel.
  
  It is no doubt that new age musicians use ambience a lot, but their experimentation with rhythm lacks punch. That is were I think Enigma and Deep Forest overtake others. Especially Deep Forest. Their sound is extremely peculiar.
  
  What I call as "SSSHHEEERRR" experimentation with sounds and noises of the world. GENIUS!
  
  I want ARR to move on and not get stuck with TFM. I want him to do something novel which is fully synthesized with nice rhythm experimentation and voices. And ofcourse his heavy use of heavenly chords.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.234.70) on: Wed Oct 1 22:27:13 EDT 2003
  
  See guys what is music all about???it is sounds rite????? it is the basic feel from in our body for sounds which makes us listen to music...... so sound is the most important thing in Music,where ARR has scored over IR heavily..... ppl. who care abt. grammar,tunes are very less....guys like me need refreshing sounds and new techniques for sound engg.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Thu Oct 2 09:20:01 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy,
  Is Noise is soothing?
  Can you come up with something better?
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Thu Oct 2 09:26:12 EDT 2003
  
  Jag, V
  When we talk about New-Age what category is that, please explain, i am just used to Nu-metal
  
  Is this a new-genre of Music, If it is Industrial sounds, then Nine Inch Nails have already done that. If it Techno-beats then lots of groups have remixed it. If it is modern day reggae, Shawn paul and others are there.. Rap-metal : Linkin Park, Fred Durst have it.
  if it is Thrash metal: then Metallica, Anthrax, Disturbed
  
  I am trying to fit in the genre somewhere, but dont know..
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Thu Oct 2 10:12:06 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy, as much as sound is important to music, silence also does produce a greater effect when properly used in songs. I dont remember ARR doing that with his song( i may be wrong), but IR had done this to perfection.
  Silence for split seconds in songs produce a greater effect in hearing. And i dont generally believe that noice is soothing!! Thats crap!
  
  
• From: Rajan Bangkok (@ 203.147.0.44) on: Thu Oct 2 11:43:18 EDT 2003
  
  Hey is there anyone got the list of ARR Songs
  based on raag.Or anyone can post where can
  I find the list. Thankyou
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.111.76) on: Thu Oct 2 12:51:03 EDT 2003
  
  MIL,
  New age is a different genre from current music genres. It started in the 80's. Enya and Yanni are some of the foremost artists in this area. I'll give some examples of new age kind of sound:
  
  1) In the song "pudhu vellai mazhai..from Roja"
  the prelude and the interludes, the kind of haunting, lost , mellifluos humming and string percussions
  2) The humming in the second interlude of " oh..baby baby from KM"
  3) Listen to Yanni's Quiet Man(the midi file is available at amazon or online for free)
  4) Most of Enya's songs
  
  Its like techno meeting melody meeting classical.
  That's why ARR music sounds different from others as New age had not been introduced to India before him and he did it in a big way.
  
  Raj,
  I agree that IR has done new sounds better than ARR. In music parlance, new sound is music which has appeal and had not been heard before. There are hundreds of such examples of new sounds in IR's music. E.g.
  1) Enniyallo malliyallo from Shiva (telugu)
  2) Kila kila mani.. from Coole no.1 (telugu)
  3) Kanne Kalaimane..from Moondram pirai
  4) Ninu kori varnam.. from Agni Natchitaram
  5) Chammki.. from Kokila(telugu)
  6) Om namo nama.. from Surya IPS (telugu)
  7) Vazha vaikum.. from Apoorva Sagothargal
  8) Attama therottama.. from Captain Prabhakaran
  9) Kaadal oviyam.. from Alaigal oiyvathillai
  10) Poongatrea.. from Vetri vizha
  and so on..
  
  Before Maddy can jump to theories, I want to say that ARR has his share of new sounds, but IR's sheer volume and innovation beats him to it.
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 131.193.154.14) on: Thu Oct 2 15:03:10 EDT 2003
  
  Raj:" as much as sound is important to music, silence also does produce a greater effect when properly used in songs. I dont remember ARR doing that with his song( i may be wrong), but IR had done this to perfection. "
  
  Actually you are wrong :-) ARR has used this technique in n number of songs. As a famous example, listen to Thee Thee in Thiruda Thiruda. For a more recent example listen to 'manmadha masan' from parthale paravasam. In fact there are a lot more songs where ARR has used silence to enhance a song. You just have to listen carefully :-)
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 2 16:45:59 EDT 2003
  
  Dude you are right. ARR too has used it. I wanted to mention that but you posted before me. Thanks. I hope somebody does not jump into comparing IR's use of silence and ARR's use of silence.
  
  
  Jag,
  
  Please... I am not talking about new age. For heaven's sake Yanni is not the kind of music I am talking about. I am talking about great bass and rhythm accompanied by ambience that somehow synchronizes with our heart beat and we are elevated to a different level by sheer conglomeration of sounds that soothe our sound senses.
  
  Please listen to Deep Forest or Enigma. These groups are very very popular in Europe but virtually zero in USA!!
  
  And MIL, these groups are very diff from Nu-metal and all those groups in the US that pose as bad attitude kind of people in their album covers.
  
  Deep Forest and Eniogma hate publicity and never have their photos ever appeared in their albums. Try looking for them in the web and you might not find any pic of them becos they hate publicity. I am saying this becos even though they use lot of rhthm in their album they are so isolated and modest and are not like ppl such as Eminem and those rapper guys who pose like moons in their cover and have full sex videos
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.20.106) on: Thu Oct 2 17:22:23 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  I was answering to MIL about New Age.
  
  But, I think you are right about deep forest not being New Age. Enigma's music kind of overlaps with new age music. Read this interesting link about New age. Kind of sounds like what you have described.
  http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7220/style.
  
  Can you give me some songs of ARR which are similar to Enigma's music. I am curious now as to what ambience I have missed out in his songs. IMO ARR's music is a cross between new age, Indian classical, and loops (all kinds, strings, percussions etc). And thanks for telling me about Enigma, as I am curious as to what the music would be like and I will surely try it out sometime.
  
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.20.106) on: Thu Oct 2 17:24:18 EDT 2003
  
  correct url for new age music history :
  http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7220/
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 2 18:48:02 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  
  Before you experience Enigma you should experience Deep Forest. They play with tribal sounds from around the world. They have an african tribal/ techno/ ambient feel to their music. The vocals such as tribal chanting, howls are just amazingly synthesized with keyboard chords. Very refreshing music. Try out
  
  1. Deep Forest(album name itself is deep forest)
  2. Boheme
  3. Comparsa
  4. Music Detected.
  
  These are their albums till now.
  
  Enigma.... hmmm. u have to get used to their music. I love the following albums of theirs
  
  1. Le Roi Est Mort, Vive Le Roi!(The king is dead, long live the king!)
  2. MCMXC a.D.
  3. The Cross Of Changes
  4. The Screen Behind The Mirror
  5. Voyageur (the latest)
  
  It is hard for me to pick out any particular song of ARR that resembles a DF or Enigma song. However the use of rhythm loops and ambience is very similar between both of them. The haunting feeling is felt with all of them.
  
  Yanni is more classical, melody fused with ambience. It is like a complete melodic song. Deep Forest uses some shrill howling, tribal chants which are not in melody but are inharmonious noises in their music. VEry interesting over all sound. Try it. But a forewarning is that it is extremely synthesized and western. It moves me and thats all I care for. These people are my real geniuses
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 2 18:56:10 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  
  I saw that side. The author itself refuses to absolutely classify what is called "New-Age" music. To me New-Age is too broad a classification given by some lazy americans to those kinds of music which is foriegn to them. If it is anything they have not heard it is new age.
  
  Probably if you give ilaiyaraaja's songs they might call that new age too as if it came only in the present age and the world has never witnessed such a song in old ages. I hate their attitude!
  
  Fortunately Enogma and Deep Forest are not classified in such a broad category called new-age! Enigma wouldbe techno-ambient. DF would be ethno-tribal/techno/ambience/world fusion
  
  

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