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Pronounciation Affair

Topic started by raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on Sat Nov 17 11:42:39 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

let me ask u people, how important is the correct pronounciation in now for example tamil songs to u? i just thought of this as i for example read that the singers of the song 'nadhirdhina' from PP had a terrible pronounciation of tamil words (and that this fact made the song unenjoyable), also other messages that hariharan has a bad pronounciation and so on.
and also, which of the non-tamilian singers do u think can pronounce tamil best? would especially like to what u think of the tamil pronounciation of the malayalee singers (KJY, chithra, sujatha, MG Sreekumar....)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: GV (@ 65.93.231.3) on: Tue Nov 20 01:37:05 EST 2001
  
  Response to DIGRESSION
  
  eden:
  
  My posting was aimed at trying to explain the difficulties that Malayali singers have in pronouncing some words in "standard" Tamil form which you yourself acknowledge many miss in their day to day speech. You have now made it into a discussion on origins of languages, "Malayali 'snob' of better pronounciation over Thamizhs", etc, etc!!
  
  "....while they write 'makan' and pronounce 'mahan' (son). What nonsense?"
  
  The only nonsense I see in that statement is the statement itself. I don't say "mahan" in Malayalam and I haven't heard anyone else say that in Malayalam. I wonder where you got that idea from! This is a classical example of grand generalization based on limited information!
  
  I do not want to get into a discussion or debate about pronounciation in Tamil and Malayalam or whether or not Tamil is the origin of all other languages. I also had exposure to Tamil spoken in various parts of the land, but wouldn't want to make too many generalizations.
  
  "the less said the better about the Malayali 'snob' of better pronounciation over Thamizhs". I wonder what you are trying to say here. Which part of my posting warranted that response?
  
  "Malayalam borrowed these letters from Thamizh only, not from heaven:-)"
  
  You are wrong again! Malayalam is the language of heaven:-)))
  
  You again ask why KJY and KSC pronounce certain Thamizh words incorrectly. I was trying to aswer that question, but you were not listening:-)))
  
  REAL end of DIGRESSION.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Tue Nov 20 01:57:55 EST 2001
  
  I don't think discussing how the mother tongue of the singers can affect their pronounciation, is a digression. I think it is well within the topic.
  
  I once heard a speech by a linguistic expert who said that Tamil, Malayalam, Karnadam and Telegu originate from Ancient Tamil. She said that though Tamil inherited the name, Malayalam is the closest to the original Ancient Tamil, followed by Tamil, as it had retained many of the vocabulary and pronounciation of Ancient Tamil, which are missing in the Tamil we know now.
  
  So stating that Malayalam borrowed from Tamil is like saying someone got their traits from their sibling. The real Mother of south Indian languages is Ancient Tamil, which is different from the Tamil we know now.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Tue Nov 20 04:09:09 EST 2001
  
  adra adra...so we r heading towards a forumhub kind of discussions ALL THE BEST
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.222) on: Tue Nov 20 04:15:56 EST 2001
  
  WhyNot, you make me laugh with your `ancient Tamil' stuff:-) What language does `thirukkuRaL' belong to?
  
  GV, I'm sorry if I've offended you...may be I went a little overboard on my last para..but it was definitely not aimed at you. Well, to fully understand my remark, you'll have to live as a person of Thamizh origin in Kerala and keep listening to the lousy remarks the locals make on whom they call `tamilanmAru' & `pANdikaLu'(more deregatory):-(
  
  So, peace:-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.222) on: Tue Nov 20 04:20:31 EST 2001
  
  & GV, FYI, mahan (written makan) is a word very frequently used in Malayalam (even if you do not happen to use that). One simple example is the title of a famous Mohanlal movie (based on Sydney Sheldon novel `Rage of angels') : RAJAVINDE MAKAN:-)
  
  
• From: e (@ 210.214.4.222) on: Tue Nov 20 04:23:06 EST 2001
  
  sorry typo: It's Sidney Sheldon:-)
  
  
• From: GV (@ 65.93.229.240) on: Tue Nov 20 07:32:52 EST 2001
  
  eden:
  
  Peace offer accepted:-))
  
  "makan" is a common word in Malayalam and I have used it a lot. But it is always written and pronounced "makan", not "mahan". You must have been listening to some "linguistically challenged" Malayalis:-))
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.41.87) on: Tue Nov 20 09:43:46 EST 2001
  
  Wherever a singer may come from, if he/she does not take enough effort to pronounce the words in a language correctly, it should not be forgiven. Accent is acceptable, but incorrect pronuncaition should not be. Considering all the effort, money and time that goes into making a song the singer has no right to kill it with his/her pronunciation. That is just not fair. Indians in general don't aim for perfection in anything. Tolerating bad pronunciation is just another example of that trait. Songs given to singers like Udit Narayan, Sukwinder Singh, etc are nothing but "kurangu kaiyil poomaalai".
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Tue Nov 20 10:17:19 EST 2001
  
  eden,
  
  i'm a malayalee and i know that we say 'makan' and not 'mahan'...perhaps we say 'maghan'...that would be more correct i think. that 'gh' softens the 'k'...but still, it is surely not 'h'.
  but the thing is, i don't know the really 'standard' pronounciation of all malayalam words (if there is any)...anyway, this 'mahan' is not at all familiar to me...perhaps people in one small part of kerala do say 'mahan'...who knows...
  this thread is going the way i wanted it to... thanks to eden (except that tamil-malayalee confrontation i read out in ur message), GV and others...
  well, in that one point u may be right eden, i too often have witnessed that malayalees look upon tamilians...they don't have a good opinion about u people...that's true...but i guess that's old story...no need to start fighting here...
  
  eh..Neel D,
  
  one question: how do u differ accent from incorrect pronounciation? doesn't an accent lead to incorrect pronounciation?
  could u clarify this please? just curious to know what u mean.
  "Indians in general don't aim for perfection in anything"
  hey, what's this? are u an indian? if u are own (which i suppose), then why discrediting ur own landsmen? or are u this typical NRI who is ashamed of his own country being so
  'underdeveloped' compared to the western countries? one who always has to find faults in india and indians, while ignoring the postive sides?
  please try avoiding such things...
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.219) on: Tue Nov 20 10:57:58 EST 2001
  
  The unfortunate irony in this thread is that pronunciation is misspelled as pronounciation. Spelling is at least as important as pronunciation, isn't it?
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ 134.117.82.45) on: Tue Nov 20 11:07:09 EST 2001
  
  Umm...
  
  Malayalees don't have a good opinion of Tamils.Likewise, Tamils don't have a good opinion of Malayalees. But does this have anything to do with music?:-)
  
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Tue Nov 20 11:18:05 EST 2001
  
  udhaya,
  
  hehe...great point!
  but see the word itself u write 'pronounce' and even 'pronouncement' u write with 'ou' and not with 'u'...only when it comes to 'pronunciation' it changes from 'ou' to 'u'. a 'failure' in english language itself? or just another unlogic thing in a language?
  hey, please, don't think that i'm now attacking languages itself to defend my wrong spelling of pronunciation. not at all...just remarked some things i noticed...
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue Nov 20 13:54:53 EST 2001
  
  araichcha maavu.....
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/19605.03.45.16.html
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/26541.12.56.20.html
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ 134.117.82.45) on: Tue Nov 20 13:58:54 EST 2001
  
  so what's new?..:-)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Tue Nov 20 14:39:16 EST 2001
  
  kupps: that song idhazhil kadhai ezhudhum is indeed by ksc.
  
  digression
  The real Mother of south Indian languages is Ancient Tamil, which is different from the Tamil we know now. this is a bunch of baloney (are you taling about the so called centhamizh and kodunthamizh?). many people seem to have this idea. the tamiz we know from tholkAppiyam to this day is the same. few verb forms have disappeared (which are still retained in malayALam) but the grammar, form, literary styles all have remained the same (actually improved) for the last two millenia. if you want to talk about anything before this two thousand years, we dont have historical/literary/archeological evidence.
  end digression
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Tue Nov 20 15:25:28 EST 2001
  
  Can somebody tell me the correct pronunciation and etymology for dhool, takkar, jujubi, and "pheel aayittEmmaa" ? :-)
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Tue Nov 20 15:30:32 EST 2001
  
  hihi:-) to be honest, i have no idea abt the intricacies of this whole language thing. Like i said i was jus repeating wat i heard this lady say during a speech. She knew how to read and write in both malayalam and tamil, has a president's award for achievement in languages, conducts radio programs, has written many highly acclaimed books, etc, so I took her word for it.
  >> few verb forms have disappeared (which are still retained in malayALam) << maybe tat's wat she was talking abt.
  
  And i jus wanted to add tat the languages tat are widely spoken are those tat adapt.
  
  I think alot of malayalees, tho not all (at least from the singaporean viewpoint) look down on tamils, while tamils jus can't stand their hi and mighty attitude.
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Tue Nov 20 16:12:30 EST 2001
  
  "I think a lot of malayalees, tho not all (at least from the singaporean viewpoint) look down on tamils, while tamils jus can't stand their hi and mighty attitude."
  
  yeah, i agree to that point, i'm a malayalee, i know...i wrote it also somewhere, in some other thread...no...it was just in this thread...just a couple of messages above...
  hmm...actually there are various reasons for malayalees to look down on tamilians (i know that, cause i'm a malayalee, hehe)...if anyone is interested in knowing this, please feel free to ask.
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: GV (@ 65.93.236.145) on: Tue Nov 20 16:22:15 EST 2001
  
  I don't like the direction this thread is taking:-)))
  
  
• From: VG (@ 208.134.115.240) on: Tue Nov 20 16:41:48 EST 2001
  
  GV:
  
  You lead this thread in this direction.
  
  

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