Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Ilayaraja's comments in Kumudam

Topic started by Karthik (@ 164.164.128.13) on Thu Feb 8 07:26:45 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

IR has, in an interview in the latest Kumudam (also covered in the front page with his snap), said that 'He has wasted 25 years of his life in film music'.

I dont know how others look at it, but I see it as a very harsh statement of total disloyalty. Its tamil film music that has given IR all the attention and praise he is receiving now. If he's a genius in composing WC, that, in any way doesnt affect anybody in TN. What affects the common man in TN is how good IR has composed in his tamil films.

IMHO, it was a statement totally unwarranted and shows utter disrespect on IR's part towards his craft.

Karthik

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: NagaS (@ 202.169.129.72) on: Thu Feb 15 03:53:24 EST 2001
  
  Karthik.,
  
  Let me tell you something, Unni krishnan became more popular after he started singing for Movies, I guess Subbudu was not against that., His concern was something else., After Unni started singing for movies, His voice became a bit light and he started treating even carnatic music concerts as light music/cine music songs., I agree to this opinion of subbudu personally - I have seen unni singing classical - before and after cine entry, Defenitely his voice has got some problems now, I am not musically knowledged to say what is that., But something is lagging when compared to his old way of singing,
  
  I think Unni Krishnan also realises this, Last week in Bangalore, there was a carnatic music concert by him and he tried his level best - selected the toughest (Atleast from my angle :-) songs and Aaalapanas and he made it simply enjoyable, It was like a comeback IMO., When I sent him a request for a song, The organisers asked me particularly 'is it a film song'., I was surprised, 'do you think I will request a film song in a concert like this ?', they responded like this - 'don't mistake us, Unni krishnan is very particular about this, He wants to keep Cine stuff out of carnatic music'., Now I understand what Subbudu was concerned about and I guess Unni krishnan also got the point, He is careful now - There was no reaction in his face when people were praising him on the stage about his cine achievements., (Yesterday I saw him in Vijay TV's Valentines' day special concert full of love songs from movies - he is totally a different person now, dancing on the stage, big shouts encouraging the audience ... He learnt the trick :-)
  
  Subbudu was always FOR good music, I remember his articles in Kumudam praising ARR's compositions - His only complaint about ARR was that he is not making his compositions purely classical - mixing Raagas and all those stuff,. Other than that, I don't see any reason for calling him senile.
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Thu Feb 15 04:03:24 EST 2001
  
  subbudu is one guy TFM lovers shouldn't take seriously. agreed he is a carnatic hotshot, but he has no business talking crapo about TFM and singers and composers in general. this is not the first time he's done it. the subbudu who's praising IR (and in the process rubbishing ARR, which is being biased) was the same guy who trashed "pon maalai pozhuthu", saying that it was a direct lift of some carnatic song that goes "sakalakala valli". so much for being neutral.
  it really gets my goat when people who don't contribute to TFM (like subbudu) never miss a chance to heap criticism or talk like experts about it.
  i don't think he's senile, he's just a clever old bandicoot who thinks he's the cat's whiskers.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.128.13) on: Thu Feb 15 05:32:49 EST 2001
  
  Naga...
  
  I agree. Point taken, I may be wrong and theres much sense in what you say. Coming to think of it, I think this is what Subbudu was rightly hinting at!
  
  Thanks
  Karthik
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 202.169.129.72) on: Thu Feb 15 07:20:25 EST 2001
  
  cram,
  
  Just curious, What Nagas and Cram have contributed to TFM ?
  
  Sujatha is writing about film music and carnatic music a lot these days - what he has contributed to those forms of isai ?
  
  DSR has been writing Music and Movie reviews for the past 10+ years - what is his contribution to the film/audio world ?
  
  To cut a long story short, Vimarsanam seyvathu elloorudaiya urimai, Noboday can deny that., You need not be an expert to do it., IMO, A care towards the art is enough.,
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Thu Feb 15 08:56:47 EST 2001
  
  NagaS,
  i knew you would ask this. think i keyed in the wrong word.
  
  "Sujatha is writing about film music and carnatic music a lot these days - what he has contributed to those forms of isai ?"
  
  by contribution, what i meant was an active interest. i may not actually contribute to TFM, by composing or writing lyrics, but the very fact that i buy tapes, CDs, talk about TFM, exchange ideas qualifies me as a TFM rasika, for want of a term (fan is too general). after all, that's how TFM is kept alive. now, would you tolerate if someone who listens to only hindi film music trashes IR or ARR in this forum? i wouldn't, because that person has no right to criticise.
  our statement "Vimarsanam seyvathu elloorudaiya urimai, Noboday can deny that" doesn't hold water. ellorukkum antha urimai kidaiyathu, TFM ketpavarkku mattum thaan antha urimai undu. subbudu is not a TFM critic, he's a carnatic and bharatanatyam critic. what business does he have talking about TFM? his criticism of Unnikrishnan was justified because unni is also a professional carnatic musician. but he can't talk crap about ARR in a public forum and expect to get away with it, just as IR had no business trashing TF itself.
  
  "You need not be an expert to do it., IMO, A care towards the art is enough"
  
  exactly my point (ur statmeent now sounds self-contradictory to me).
  
  hope i have cleared up ur misconception
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.164.166) on: Thu Feb 15 09:12:42 EST 2001
  
  "our statement "Vimarsanam seyvathu elloorudaiya urimai, Noboday can deny that" doesn't hold water. ellorukkum antha urimai kidaiyathu, TFM ketpavarkku mattum thaan antha urimai undu. subbudu is not a TFM critic, he's a carnatic and bharatanatyam critic. what business does he have talking about TFM?"
  
  Cram, I beg to differ on this point. I derive from whatever you wrote. If I and you can ctitisice TFMers then why not subbudu. He may be listening to TFM music than you and me in a moredetailed fashion. His analysing capacity could be more advanced than many here.
  He sits in a better judging positon than many here because of (1) his vast experience and (2) unbiasedness. The undisclosed fact is, the basis for all TFM, either knowingly or unknowingly, is carnatic though, they look like two different tracks. I feel, being well accepted as a music critic, subbudu's comments will be take more seriously by many, if not by everybody.
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 202.169.129.72) on: Thu Feb 15 09:18:49 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo.,
  
  Naan solla ninaiththathai neengaL solli vitteerkaL.,
  
  I also agree to cram's statement - if Subbudu comments on TFM without listening to any of these songs, it will be meaningless to listen to him, We cannot make a judgement unless and until we know about subbudu's knowledge in this field.,
  
  As far as I remember, he was concentrating on classical music and dance vimarsanam and occasionally writing about film music too., There are two volumes of collection of his review works, Will try to get the book this weekend,
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Thu Feb 15 10:16:43 EST 2001
  
  NagaS, Here is the supportive article on your earlier comments;
  
  http://telugu.cinesouth.com/english/specials/interviews/unni1.shtml
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Thu Feb 15 11:49:24 EST 2001
  
  Cram
  
  First of all, you yourself remember Subbudu crticising 'pon maalaip pozhudhu'. So he has criticised IR also. Does'nt this prove that he is not biased against anyone? He praises someone when that person does something good and critises the same person when he does something wrong. This is the defenition of being neutral and being unbiased.
  
  Next, we cannot assume that he does not listen to TFM enough to criticise it. We do not know how much he listens to TFM. More over, even his critcisms are oriented towards the carnatic aspects of TFM. He comments about mixing of raagams, deviations from a raagam etc. No he comments about thaaLam dominating over raagam. Same sandhams are being used with different sounding thaaLam. This is not a healthy trend from a carnatic point of view. That is what he says.
  
  Finally, I happened to see an interview of Subbudu on Sun TV. The interviewer (Varadharajan) asked this very question. 'How can you criticise musicians, when you cannot produce even what they are doing'. Subbudu's answer was great. He said, 'I am a consumer. I pay money to buy the cassette. I buy the ticket to listen to the concert. I have the right to criticise anything, when I am the consumer. This is the essence of consumerism'.
  
  You buy Kissan jam. You don't like it and comment on it. I come and ask you, 'Don't criticise Kissan. Can YOU make a jam like this'? Will you accept that? If you are a consumer and you don't like what you bought, you have every right to criticise it. It is not necessary that YOU should be able to better.
  
  Sorry for the long posting.
  
  
• From: Anand (@ 192.11.226.120) on: Thu Feb 15 13:34:20 EST 2001
  
  doubter,
  What did Subbudu criticize about "Pon malai Pozhudu"? Please enlighten us
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Thu Feb 15 14:21:34 EST 2001
  
  Anand
  
  I did not read any crticisms by Subbudu about 'ponmaalaip pozhuthu'. I was just replying to Cram's posting, which said:
  
  the subbudu who's praising IR (and in the process rubbishing ARR, which is being biased) was the same guy who trashed "pon maalai pozhuthu", saying that it was a direct lift of some carnatic song that goes "sakalakala valli".
  
  
• From: Venki (@ 12.35.64.19) on: Thu Feb 15 14:30:50 EST 2001
  
  Have Subbudu critisized Film Music ever before IR?
  Does anyone know about that?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Feb 15 14:37:05 EST 2001
  
  Re: rAgam and film music. A song is an 'elaboration of a pattern' , where the pattern is the rAgam of the song. This is what keerthanai is (as per my understanding). Film songs were also done this way. So if you are not following this strictly you are not imaginative or purposely diluting an art form. I think this is Subbudu's point. And he is probably qualified enough to comment on this.
  Re: thalam. I think ARR is the first MD for whom the tune comes next to the rhythm. He has mentioned this in his interview. And I suspect it is not just rhythm, he selects the rhythm arrangment first and then goes to compose a tune. This is radically different from the way previous MDs were composing. Again this is what Subbudu is referring to. Carnatic music/melody based music is our culture (inspite of the elaborate tAlam system). Subbudu is just trying to preserve this tradition with his criticisms.
  Being old does not necessarily make one senile. If that were the case Americans would elect only presidents, say lesser than 40 or so.
  Young people should not delude themselves that youthfulness by itself is a positive thing. Remember, Bernard shaw said, 'Youth is wasted on the young' :)
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.201.48) on: Thu Feb 15 14:41:54 EST 2001
  
  Yes Subbudu Sir(he is now 80+) has critisized IR,even though i cannot recollect in its entireity here are few. First Subbdu was full of appreciation for Raja. He called Ponmalai pozhudu as Asutha Kedaram
  saying he has spoiled the song by mixing some anniya swaram on a beautiful Kedaram based song.
  Unfortunately MR Subbudu is not a expert in Western, he didnt realize that cine music is not full carnatic based as you have to Chords to make the song solid and richer so when you use chords u can play all the notes of Kedaram anyway this is my personal comment though.
  But overall he was full of appreciation for IR and a healthy criticsm but he never mention as direct lift from any carnatic song.
  This article came very long ago in Kumudam may be in 89-90.
  BTW recently Subbudu has critised ARR for directly lifting a folk song in his film Sangamam and not IR.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments