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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Note: You may want to refer to the list of raga based film songs before posting a query.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Thu Jul 27 10:54:58 EDT 2000
  
  RR:
  
  you are right. There is no N2 in both the songs. Sorry for the confusion.
  
  ALso please explain how gowla differes from may maaLava gowLa.
  
  MalargaLE naadhaswarangaL :
  
  IS this set in a particular ragam ? I thik it is an admixture.
  
  pallavi = hamsadhwani
  
  charaNam has two portions:
  
  karuvizi uRangaamal = brindhaavaNi ?
  
  manmathan thirukkOvil athil kaathal poojai= ?
  
  rathi dhEviyE = hamsaanandhi.
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ s03.austin.ibm.com) on: Thu Jul 27 14:01:23 EDT 2000
  
  Though a little late, a good hamsanandi is "rathiriyil poothirukkum thamarai". As for malayamarutham another good one by IR is "kanmani nee vara kathirunden..."
  
  MS: For gowla, did you want the A/a difference? (srmpns+;s+npmrgmrs) or just in sancharas? The usage of "rgmrs" which occurs as vakra in ava. is characteristic of gowla.
  
  
• From: sivanathan (@ compaqproxy1.brunet.bn) on: Fri Jul 28 03:01:56 EDT 2000
  
  Dear Dr.S.Kannan,
  Thank you very much for your kind reply . I appreciate your service to music lovers. May god bless you.
  
  
• From: dr.s.kannan (@ 61.1.207.228) on: Fri Jul 28 15:32:12 EDT 2000
  
  hallo Vasu, the song 'rathiriyil poothirukkum
  thamarai.'is not 100% hamsanandhi. You can appreciate the change in the scale in 3rd line of
  saranam- i.e, 'mannavanin pasiyara..' till this
  it is hamsanandhi- but, 'Vazhau yilai neer thelithu podadi en kanne..'is not hamsanandhi- guess! it is vasantha! Since Vasantha and Hamsananadhi are panchama varjya ragas- originating from parents of a similar mela(17*th
  sooryakantham (vasantha) & 53rd Gamanasramam(H.NA)
  U won't be able to appreciate on a cursory glance
  This is the place where IR had made the composing
  in an excellent way yet this song is a superhit!
  sooryakantham is sudhamadhyama raga for prathima
  mam Gamanasramam. Interstingly a very good Hamsanandhi song byIR (spb& bavadharini)-film
  ?poonthottam- 'Ganakkuyile.. kannurakkam ponadhadi
  kadhal kavithai.. nenchezhuthi paduthadi.." the
  song is a wonderful piece for Hamsanandhi. has any
  one heard this song?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Fri Jul 28 17:45:45 EDT 2000
  
  vasu:
  
  thanks for the info though not much has been digested :-)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Fri Jul 28 17:48:26 EDT 2000
  
  Kannan:
  
  Your observation about "raaththiriyil" is right. But there is no song of SPB in "poonthOttam". Please try to get the name of film in which the song you mentioned is available. I will try to listen.
  
  thx
  
  
• From: Sridhar K (@ elmo.nordstrom.com) on: Fri Jul 28 19:55:20 EDT 2000
  
  Hi,
  
  Although this is not the correct site for this question....I am looking for a website which provides lyrics of St.Thyagaraja's krithis.
  
  Any pointers?
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: RR (@ proxy.krdl.org.sg) on: Fri Jul 28 22:06:51 EDT 2000
  
  Dr.Kannan & MS: It's from Poonjolai. Sung by IR & Bhavatharani. Talking about hamsanandhi, 'raaga deepam aetrum neram' deserves a mention.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sat Jul 29 00:29:02 EDT 2000
  
  ..and vEdham aNu aNvuvilum naadham from salangai oli.
  
  
• From: Vidhya (@ prem.ne.mediaone.net) on: Sat Jul 29 00:31:55 EDT 2000
  
  Sridhar: A few lyrics are here:
  http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~sundar/carnatic/Lyrics.html
  A list here:
  http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~sundar/rmic/FAQ/tyAgarAja-kritis.html
  
  
• From: dr.s.kannan (@ 61.1.207.246) on: Sat Jul 29 15:00:30 EDT 2000
  
  hallo carnaticophilic rasikas,if we can try to see
  the songs set in raga Hamsanandhi, probably you will be amazed to know the magnitude of this raga.
  i am just mentioning this for the sake of knowing.
  1.Thesulavudhe thenmalaraada..-Manalane mangayin
  bagkiyam-(Gantasala-jikki)excellent piece followed
  by Kalyani saranam. 2.Kaalaiyum neeye..Malaiyum
  neeye..- Thenilavu(Some people claim this as BASANTH-i dont know)3.Ninaithal podhum paduven..
  Anaithal podhum aaduven..'- avlukkenru oru manam
  4.Aanaiyitten nerungathe..- PUNNAGAI.5.Enna koduppan evai koduppan enrivargal ennumunne..-
  the 4th piece in KARNAN sung by PBS- AN EXCELLENT
  RENDERING.6.Kurunagai theivanai malarodu.. enthan
  kulamagalaka varum ninaivodu..-in Arupadai veedu
  konda Thiru Muruga..by Sirkali in Kandan karunai
  Along with this you can add the classical bit from
  Mella thiranthathu kadhavu -"Pavana kuru.." any
  piece set in this panchamavrjya raga is something
  excellent!
  
  
• From: dr.s.kannan (@ 61.1.207.246) on: Sat Jul 29 15:02:18 EDT 2000
  
  hallo carnaticophilic rasikas,if we can try to see
  the songs set in raga Hamsanandhi, probably you will be amazed to know the magnitude of this raga.
  i am just mentioning this for the sake of knowing.
  1.Thesulavudhe thenmalaraada..-Manalane mangayin
  bagkiyam-(Gantasala-jikki)excellent piece followed
  by Kalyani saranam. 2.Kaalaiyum neeye..Malaiyum
  neeye..- Thenilavu(Some people claim this as BASANTH-i dont know)3.Ninaithal podhum paduven..
  Anaithal podhum aaduven..'- avlukkenru oru manam
  4.Aanaiyitten nerungathe..- PUNNAGAI.5.Enna koduppan evai koduppan enrivargal ennumunne..-
  the 4th piece in KARNAN sung by PBS- AN EXCELLENT
  RENDERING.6.Kurunagai theivanai malarodu.. enthan
  kulamagalaka varum ninaivodu..-in Arupadai veedu
  konda Thiru Muruga..by Sirkali in Kandan karunai
  Along with this you can add the classical bit from
  Mella thiranthathu kadhavu -"Pavana kuru.." Any
  piece set in this panchamavrjya raga is something
  excellent!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sat Jul 29 15:21:13 EDT 2000
  
  Is hamsaanandhi a janya of "panthuvaraaLi" ? That aside, I was humming "ennamma kaNNu sowkkyamaa" from Mr.Bharath (yeah..had no other job to do) and suddenly it struck that its swaras include:
  
  S R1 G3 M1 P D1 N2 S
  
  This seems to be VakulaabraNam. To my knowledge there is no anya swaram in the ragam. Can anybody comfirm ?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sat Jul 29 15:22:30 EDT 2000
  
  typo:
  
  anya swaram in the ragam =song
  
  
• From: Vidhya (@ chpxy01-chrtr01.ne.mediaone.net) on: Sat Jul 29 16:35:28 EDT 2000
  
  MS: pandhuvaraaLi is:
  51 | kAmavardhini | S R1 G3 M2 P D1 N3 S | S N3 D1 P M2 G3 R1 S
  
  HamsAnandhi |53| S R1 G3 M2 D2 N3 S | S N3 D2 M2 G3 R1 S
  is a janyam of
  53 | gamanashrama | S R1 G3 M2 P D2 N3 S | S N3 D2 P M2 G3 R1 S
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sat Jul 29 17:01:09 EDT 2000
  
  Oh..there is a difference in dhaivatham ? I should have noticed it. Dumb :-(
  
  I have one question about these janya ragas. Mohanam is janya of Sankarabaranam from books. But can it be considered a janya of KalyaaNi too ? or rephrasing the question in two ways:
  
  (1) what do we mean when we say a ragam is a janyam of another ? what are the criteria
  
  (2) Can there be a multiple inheretance ? :-) The swaras of mohanam are there in kalyaaNi too. SO where is the difference ?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sat Jul 29 17:02:31 EDT 2000
  
  inheritance.
  
  
• From: IR (@ 1cust34.tnt30.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Sat Jul 29 17:32:08 EDT 2000
  
  MS, let me try and explain this.. :)
  
  The general rule for identifying the janaka raga of a janya raga is:
  
  In the 72 melakartha scheme, the first possible melakartha ragam with the same notes is considered to be the parent raga.
  
  BTW, Mohanam is a janya of 28th Melakartha Harikhambodhi.
  
  This should explain why Mohanam is not considered to be a janya of either Shankarabharanam (29th mela) or Kalyani (65th Mela).
  
  
• From: IR (@ 1cust34.tnt30.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Sat Jul 29 17:33:28 EDT 2000
  
  Answer to your 1st question:
  
  Janya raga is a child raga derived from a parent raga which would be one of the 72 melakartha ragas :)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sat Jul 29 19:19:55 EDT 2000
  
  IR, After reasing your answer to my first question, I now understand that I should not have declared myself dumb :-) I am portrayed as getting worse by experts like you :-)
  
  thx for the answers.
  
  
• From: IR (@ 1cust34.tnt30.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Sat Jul 29 19:34:46 EDT 2000
  
  MS - I know what you are :)
  
  
• From: RR (@ proxy.krdl.org.sg) on: Sat Jul 29 22:09:36 EDT 2000
  
  Hamsanandhi sounds like a easy & favorite scale for MD's to churn out hits. There have been a few in the 90's too:
  
  anbe anbe (chinna raja; MD: deva)
  kannukkul sugam paaithathenna (thinamthorum; MD:Oviyan)
  and more.. i don't recall now, will post later
  
  
• From: dr.s.kannan (@ 61.1.207.187) on: Sun Jul 30 15:14:49 EDT 2000
  
  Hi, the discussion about the janyam of MAOHANAM is
  in fact a healthier trend in direction and content
  As the Mohanam is having the following Swaras..
  Sa ri ga pa da sa./ the first Parent RAGA in thelist to have contributed the janya swaras is
  Harikamboji(28). As the next melakartha Dheera
  sankarabaranam and its isomer Mecha kalyani also
  have the same swaras of MOHANAM, you had got confused .Anyhow you can be satisfied that a new
  combo of Mohanam & Kalyani by name Mohana kalyani
  came into existence- mohanam in aarohanam &kalyani
  in avarohanam. Aclassical example for this raga
  in tfm is Amudhum thenumedharku.. by Sirkali in
  Thai pirandal vazhipirakkum.Recent entry in this
  raga is THE song Sikhappu lolakku kulunguthu..from
  AASAI by Deva(?surprised!)keep it up MS!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Sun Jul 30 17:11:44 EDT 2000
  
  Dr.Kannan:
  
  Thx for the explanation. Infact I know mohana kalyaaNi. The famous thillaana by Lalgudi Jeyaraman is in that ragam. I find it hard to accept that , just because harikaamboji has found its place before sankaraabaraNam in the " mElakjartha list" it became a janaka ragam of mohanam. I thought there would be an explanation based on microtones. I still wonder what is the basis for the list. Is there a particular grammar according to which the list has been prepared ?
  
  BTW, did anybody have a chance to stop and listen to "ennammaa kaNNu sowkyamaa" and confirm if it is in vaghulaabaranam ?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 1cust232.tnt8.bos2.da.uu.net) on: Sun Jul 30 17:35:00 EDT 2000
  
  MS - this was found to be the most appropriate method to set a rule for determining the janaka ragas. You are right about going by microtones/raga chayas. I do agree with you that mohanam would be better off being a janya of SB than HK :)
  
  There are janya ragas which do not comply with this common rule and Madhyamavathi is a classic example. It is defined as a janya of Karaharapriya(22) instead of NataBhairavi(20) going by raga chaaya. Sudhdha Saaveri is another example - it is a janya of SB (29) and not HK (28)...
  
  This is an ongoing controversy :)
  
  

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