Topic started by Vimal (@ lib-ws-167.lib.asu.edu) on Sun May 9 18:59:21 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Hey Guys,
There has been one worrying factor lingering in my mind for many days. The number of persons loyal to IR is approaching zero. Someone had posted that even Fazil has left IR that crap movie-maker called Kalanjiyam has also ditched IR. What it all implies is we can't expect many movies from IR in future.
The probability that IR will work with ManiRathnam is near zero. KB, BR, have all left IR. Even Rajnikanth and not to forget Kamalhaasan.
So, whereand how is it all going to end?
I mean, we should not people like Deva even exist
in TFM!! How many of guys have bought a CD of Deva
with awe? I can bet it'll be near zero!
There is a degradation in TFM and the only way out
is IR joining hands with all these glorified people again. Any comments??
I'm also interested in knowing the background behind the bickerings between IR and all these people. I know we have many "FILM NEWS ANANDAN"s
in the forum. Guys, what happened?
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com)
on: Mon May 10 15:46:24 EDT 1999
IR did compose a few fast paced nos., but just a few. One reason why ARR numbers r catchy is that they use bass (or its synth version) quite heavily. IR lacks on that count.
Admit that IR was strong on western and carnatic classical too.
- From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228)
on: Mon May 10 15:47:27 EDT 1999
Sudhakar, money and costs arent the criteria why producers/directors are not working with IR. These days the cost of producing a movie is much much more than earlier days in 80s where IR ruled TFM, and producers are willing to pay a greater price. Music occupies a centerstage in the movie promos and the sales of music rights etc can rope in more returns! so, price an MD charges seems to be a secondary issue.
IR's so-called-decline is his own doing. He alienated himself from the best Directors and artists.
Karthik, you made a very good point when you said "The sad part is that the western MD and artistes have professional managers who promote them, where as a genius like IR fails just on that count.". Why western MDs.. even many artists in Bollywood follow this. Karisma Kapoor is a standing example of how a professional marketing and media consulting could boost someone's career. IR should atleast leave it all to some professional managers who would take care of his professional-dealings, negotiations and talks. I'm not aware about how IR handles these things now.. but Instead of IR dealing with the MDs etc directly, he can isolate himself and let his manager deal with all issues! Let IR not let some personal-clashes interfere with his profession.
- From: Vimal (@ 129.219.38.215)
on: Mon May 10 16:07:44 EDT 1999
I don't think IR will get to the level of paying commissions etc. It is really absurd. I mean, look at that guy, he should be richer than even Rajni and Kamal. He should be the richest personality in leave alone TFM, but the TFW(Tamil film World).
I was heard somewhere that MR had expressed his
displeasure over the music of DILSE and had als0 mentioned that IR would've done a better job.
All IR needs to do is take the receiver and make
a call. But will he do that?..
- From: Ravi (@ unknown-48-23-144.mattel.com)
on: Mon May 10 16:21:16 EDT 1999
Film making is a team venture with the director at the helm. Music along with photography, editing etc. is a part, albeit big part of the film making process. All directors - from Balachander down to the latest newcomer - want to put their stamp on the movie. They would definitely welcome any help from a MD in fulfilling their vision of the movie, but at the end of the day, they want it to be THEIR movie. Similary, when the movie becomes successful, the director might attribute a part of the success of the movie to the music, but would still want the majority of the success to be associated with their directorial skills. I think this is the main reason for directors like Balachander and Manirathnam not using IR. They believe that they can use any MD and still create successful movies because they believe they have the talent to do so.
Personally, I think IR should do just a few films and channel his energy towards non-film albums. Do we need a film like Payanangal Mudivathillai to listen to the songs in it? The biggest problem with this scenario is getting the financial backing and assembling the talent. That is where he needs professional help. Maybe he should start reading the "Sponsor an IR Album" thread on DF!
- From: Karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com)
on: Mon May 10 16:24:33 EDT 1999
Kuzapam:
I feel that IR is the greatest modern musician simply because of his range and depth.
Tell me, how many composers have withstood the test of time? Most were out touch with time somewhere in their career. Honourable exceptions will be the likes of Thyagaraja, Mozart, Bach etc.
That doesn't mean that IR can't stage a come back. RD Burman was virtually out of contention when he staged a comeback with 1942: A love story.
I sure believe that IR is notches above RDB and can stage a comeback. If , as Sudhakar pointed out, he leaves the management to professionals and focusses on creative music.
Hope you weren't serious when you hinted that there aren't different types of music. In fact, there are many genres. IR once made a similar remark, drew a lot of flak and ate back his words.
- From: Srinath (@ ss07.nc.us.ibm.com)
on: Mon May 10 16:27:23 EDT 1999
Karthik:
"One reason why ARR numbers r catchy is that they use bass (or its synth version) quite heavily. IR lacks on that count. " is factually incorrect.
- From: Karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com)
on: Mon May 10 16:32:20 EDT 1999
Srinath:
When I say "ARR nos. r catchy", I mean it from the rhythmic perspective. Is it not a fact that IR nos. r less dependent on rhythm and r based mostly on melody?
- From: Srinath (@ ss08.ny.us.ibm.com)
on: Mon May 10 17:30:48 EDT 1999
Karthik:
Maybe you are just not using the right terminology - because ARR's songs are the ones that depend on a few catchy lines in the tune. ARR pumps up his bass volume real high and this misleads people into thinking that he has very good bass sounds. I hate his usage (or non-usage) of bass guitar ! IR is the best when it comes to the bass guitar in all IFM. ARR's strong points are his recording quality and different sounds. IR is better than him in every other imaginable spehere of composing music. Even IR has used a lot of different sounds during his heydays - but he has used them so well that they don't stand out like a sore thumb !
- From: vyaas (@ ascella.anonymizer.com)
on: Mon May 10 22:35:08 EDT 1999
'used a lot of sounds during his heydays'? Does that mean he doesnt now?:)LOL
- From: Raja Fan (@ spider-th041.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue May 11 01:27:54 EDT 1999
Srinath is the truest of the true spokesperson in this forum. I liked his reiveiw of ESK. I also have same problem. I like ARR's songs, but I have no choice but spend that one spare hour listening to 70s and 80s IR
- From: S (@ webgate0.mot.com)
on: Tue May 11 04:40:43 EDT 1999
vyaas,
thaniyA sirichindirukkeenga pOlirukku ???
- From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-98.il.us.ibm.net)
on: Tue May 11 07:52:49 EDT 1999
guys,
Again we divert our talk to music knowledge etc.
How much ever knowledge you have, you need a medium to bring that out!, currently there are only few directors who are willing to use raja. This is bcos Raja is not ready to cooperate with big time directors because of his attitude.
He has to change in order to regain his position , else his waterloo is already met.
Srinath : Once again you did not get the topic, we are not talking about skill here we are talking about marketing and personal attitude etc. Do not waste time on explaining Raja's skill, torch does not require another light.
- From: Karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com)
on: Tue May 11 09:12:23 EDT 1999
Srinath:
I agree that u r right in ur observation of the usage of bass in IR and ARR. Thanks for the input. I never observed it before.
- From: Karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com)
on: Tue May 11 09:12:57 EDT 1999
Srinath:
I agree that u r right in ur observation of the usage of bass in IR and ARR. Thanks for the input. I never observed it before.
- From: Srinath (@ ss07.nc.us.ibm.com)
on: Tue May 11 11:46:06 EDT 1999
Srikanth:
"once again you did not get the topic" ?!!! :-) I'll let that pass ! Anyway, welcome back. Looks like you have started posting regularly again after a long time ! I was just trying to tell Karthik that he was missing out on one of IR's strongest points !
Ok, back to the topic ! Srikanth, I read somewhere that the fight between IR and MR started during the recording of Dalapathi's BGM. Is this true ? Somehow I did not like the "Dalapathi, engal Dalapathi, nam dalapathi !" chorous that goes on. It sounded very odd. What was the fight between IR and MR about ?
- From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com)
on: Tue May 11 12:20:17 EDT 1999
There is no need for IR to talk to any joker in the film world to get offers. Nonsense. MR is another lucky .... If he dared argue with IR then it shows his lack of humility. Arrogant chaps, man. IR can do many other stuff than waste time composing for jokers like mr or or or whomever
- From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228)
on: Tue May 11 12:28:33 EDT 1999
Sitaram,
Would you mind maintaining some norms of decency in your posts? why do you have to call people like MR names? All said and done, MR is one of the best directors we have today in India!
- From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152)
on: Tue May 11 12:52:29 EDT 1999
IRFANS : Do not abuse other artists for heaven sake,
MR has a part in raising the Std of tamil movie, Sitaraman: MR has the right to have the same ego as Raja. When IR expects people to loyal to him, he should also be loyal.
I am sure MR is not a nut to argue with Raja. People in the middle have dug the gap little more, but still IR could have made a phone call and finished the matter.
You can ask MR can also make the call but IR did the same thing with KB's, Kamal, Kovai thambi etc etc. The fault is with IR, not with the producers or directors. Worest part is he had a verbal war with SPB!, who is known to be humble, calm and egoless.
- From: Vimal (@ lib-vr-001.lib.asu.edu)
on: Tue May 11 12:54:54 EDT 1999
IR may not be one of the best directors in the country, but he is one of the most popular. If there is one director whose movies people throng to watch, it is Manirathnam. ( Who said P.Vasu ?)
It would be a great break both for IR and us if IR
recombines with MR.
Like I'd written in the beginning of the forum, I'm really interested in knowing between the stories involving the bickerings between IR and all the famous directors. And even fell DF-ers like Srinath also want to the details.
Why don't any of you "Well Informed Guys" just spare some time and throw some light on the issue?
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