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TFM MD'S musical approach and recording technqs

Topic started by UV (@ 138.88.107.150) on Sun Feb 3 14:58:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Here we will discuss constructively about the various trends in compsoing,recording techniqs,methods that existed,adopted,tried and being introduced by all our MDS with major focus IR nd ARR followed by others.
Hopefully those who read the postings will get an idea about Music making and thats its an art of the highest creativity of human mind.
And not mere digital gadgetry or synth music

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srini (@ 194.170.168.244) on: Thu Feb 28 07:58:27 EST 2002
  
  hi hi,
  
  Can u explain what a counter point is.
  
  Thanks
  
  hi hi seems too frivilous for a teacher.
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 213.42.0.247) on: Thu Feb 28 08:33:31 EST 2002
  
  hi hi
  I meant the name hi hi. Not what u say.
  
  Just to be clear
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 160.231.5.127) on: Thu Feb 28 10:00:00 EST 2002
  
  Kiru:
  
  That's why I said "Suspend the Sustained Confusion". Please check that u wrote Sustained Chord...Change it to Suspended Chord.
  
  How about making this "SUSTAINED CHORD" as another newtfmpage abbreviation for Suspended Chord?
  To avoid any such confusions:-))
  
  - Aditya
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 160.231.10.189) on: Thu Feb 28 10:09:30 EST 2002
  
  Hi Srini:
  
  "Srinivasa Varadharajan" aka hihi:-)) Isn't it wonderful. Now start taking seriously:-))
  
  - Aditya
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu Feb 28 16:53:11 EST 2002
  
  Aditya..right right..I got it.
  Srinivasa Varadharajan" aka hihi:-)) Isn't it wonderful. Now start taking seriously:-)) "
  And when he files his nominations for the elections from aandipatti or arasanpatti it will be 'aruLaracan' :) kaNNan mAthiri pala pEyar undu nanbarukku :)
  (BTW, IR seems to have written some 'sustained chord' for the symphony orchestra playing Lajja BGM..I will get the exact words later in the day)
  
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 165.122.128.173) on: Thu Feb 28 17:07:40 EST 2002
  
  Lajja BGM has got some good vocal chorus/harmony too.
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 160.231.5.189) on: Thu Feb 28 18:41:50 EST 2002
  
  This is the extract from Raajangahm...
  Possibly you're talking about the same.
  
  --------------------------------------------------
  On one occasion, I felt the need for a long piece of music in the background score of Hey Ram. I wrote the piece of music with holding sustain chord, for the orchestra. The idea was to sustain the melody just the way the Indian instrument Tambura is used. I wondered if such lengthy sustain would dampen the enthusiasm of the orchestra players. An idea flashed in my mind while writing the chord. Laszlo was all the while watching me writing the notation and when he saw my new idea, he was all smiles and commended that it was a good style of writing.
  
  Self: I never learned anything like this in any school like you.
  Laszlo: That's a great news.
  
  I had written the music in such a way that during the orchestra recording, the players while playing the chord, turned to their sides to watch their colleagues play the chord. The sound remained unaffected whereas the increasing and decreasing sustains were played by each player seated next to each other. Everyone was surprised to hear the sound remain unchanged.
  --------------------------------------------------
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 160.231.5.126) on: Thu Feb 28 18:57:27 EST 2002
  
  Kiru:
  
  Maestro IR was talking about the Sustain as an effect rather than a chord itself. Probably there was no better term to explain about this effect.
  The effect is kind of similar to Droning.
  
  The effect that IR wanted was to held/Sustain on one note continually while the harmony or chord pattern around it changes. Tambura/Bagpiper as an instrument, owing to it's construction and tuning gives a droning effect.
  
  Sometimes you can get away with the simplest chord progression by putting some sustained notes. Using sustained notes also makes the chord changes sound smoother by having strings which resonate continously. Carnatic Classical Music concert uses this effect with tambura as a tradition and it works out very well.
  
  So no confusion with the Sustain and Suspended...
  One is used for effect and other is the chord itself.
  
  Regards,
  Aditya
  
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Wed Mar 6 20:45:06 EST 2002
  
  please continue your discussions..
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Wed Mar 6 20:46:18 EST 2002
  
  How about this: can anyone explain the use of counterpoints by MSV?
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.132) on: Fri Mar 8 04:57:47 EST 2002
  
  To swamiji, arul, srikanth, UV and others ,Kindly help me with this posting
  
  Sriram/s0, once asked if the MDs know evrything that goes into their compositions? Or does something (good or bad) creep in without their knowledge. Why I am saying this is in context of the song Athisayam song from PP.
  
  If u observe the pallavi for that song, the pallavi is repeated for every five bars, but the bass line accompanying it is repeated for every 4 bars. (please pay attention to the pallavi part (Athisayam thirumanam....), esp towards the end of the song, u can understand what I mean).
  
  To be more elaborate, the bass for the pallavi part consists of 2 lines basically (lets call them line1 and line2), and Line2 is played in the same fashion somewhere down the scale than Line1. Now, the way the bass is played is , Line1 is played three times (for three bars) and then line 2 is played for one time (for the 4th bar). And then the pattern is repeated again. But if u observe the singers singing the pallavi, they sing for 4 bars and rest for the 5th bar and then start again. The singers rest for one whole bar, where as the bass doesnt stop, but keeps going on. And this makes Line2 of bass to be played for a different melody line of the singers each time. Now is this some mistake that creeped in or did the MD want it that way?
  
  Why I think it cud be a mistake is, traditionally the bass would be same for a melody line that is repeated. Adn why I think it may not be a mistake but the MD wants it that way is becos of this:
  In some western music, in common time (4/4), there is this simple technique. Each of the 4 notes (crotchets) in a bar is again divided into 4 more equal notes , thus having a total of 16 (quavers)notes. And some guitarists, strum their guitar at the first quaver of the first crotchet, and at the second qauver of the second crotchet and so on. This makes the stress fall at different places. LIkewise in this particular song the MD could be aiming at something like this, or it might be a mistake that crept in.
  
  Please clarify me on this point.
  
  Thanks
  
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.132) on: Fri Mar 8 05:29:46 EST 2002
  
  By the way, I think the slight variation of syncopation technique I am talkin abt cud be find in the intro guitar strumming for Nadir Thinna (PP) and the intro claps for Jumbalakka, not exactly sure though. Also in Jumbalakka, compare the way chords are played from the key board for the brass like melody that ends first interlude, and for the line "Nenjodu oru kaadhal..." in the charanam. They give accents at different places. Though they are not exactly what I said in the above posting, but the way they are played/clapped is to have accents at different places for differnt bars. Please clarify me on this also.
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Fri Mar 8 09:12:43 EST 2002
  
  thanks Sam (@ 132 . hope others join.
  I couldn't completely understand what you were talking about, but I'll do my homework and try to learn some music theory.
  by-the-way, how did you know my name?
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sun Mar 10 01:34:11 EST 2002
  
  Sriram, Google. Neways, why no responses?
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Sun Mar 10 11:17:06 EST 2002
  
  Where are the other experts? Even the amateur composers thread is waning to the archives.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ ) on: Thu Apr 18 00:26:39 EDT 2002
  
  Recently Sarat had mentioned in another thread about 4 loops he had found in the site flashkit.com which sounded very much like parts of the title song song 'kandukonden kandukonden' from KK.
  
  The four loops he had mentioned includeMillion
  
  Mile Love 001
  Clear Blue Day 001
  Savinji Ja-Ja 001
  Eastern Garden 001
  
  All the four loops are from one company Mach New Media. I tracked down 3 of these loops in the flashkits site and you can listen to them too online.
  
  Million Mile Love 001
  http://www.flashkit.com/cgi-bin/loops/search.cgi?query=Million+Mile+Love+001&x=36&y=10
  
  Savinji Ja-Ja 001
  http://www.flashkit.com/cgi-bin/loops/search.cgi?query=Savinji+Ja-Ja+001&x=35&y=12
  
  Eastern Garden 001
  http://www.flashkit.com/cgi-bin/loops/search.cgi?query=Eastern+Garden+001&x=22&y=12
  
  The issue is that these loops have been used as-is in the KK song. No doubt KK song has its own and above all has a lovely tune. Also the fact that if you had heard these loops before you had heard the KK songs I dont think they'd have evoked any particular reaction but it does so now only beacuse we are very familiar with them through the KK song.
  
  Is this is the right way to compose? Could anybody like Srikanth or sam respond? IR composed amazing songs even without them. Does this amount to copying? Maybe not since they are commercially available to anyone. But how does this place ARR against IR? I'm of course a huge fan of ARR but these loops comes across as quite a shocker!
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.82.74) on: Thu Apr 18 02:16:23 EDT 2002
  
  KarthikS.. ha.. gr8 work that... repeat this in the thread "copying in TFM" and u r gonna get brickbats from ARR fans.. :-))
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Apr 18 02:29:42 EDT 2002
  
  Vj,
  
  I purposely avoided that 'cos I want to present a distinction between copying the tune and using the loops. Copying is when you use somebody else's work and do not credit them for it and moreso you take credit for it.
  
  Here, these loops, if you just check that website I had mentioned, are available for everybody who requires them. There's no liability on part of the user to mention the name of the loop selling firm etc etc. Why, this was available to even me and you. And by that logic of mere availability there should be 1000s of Rahman now, as what Srikanth had posted in this thread sometime back!
  
  On thinking about it further, I understand that its a smarter way to work. But since this was not adopted in older days and since we're not acquainted with this work format earlier, we tend to think that this is ridiculous, partly 'cos we are still stuck in our older ways.
  
  But the one thing that gets affected is the reputation of Rahman's interludes. Here all the 4 loops posted are used in interludes. Now I'm sure we'd start wondering if every one of ARR's impressive interludes were from some loop. And that is a pretty sad turn of events, albeit much to the excitement of IR fans!
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Apr 18 08:43:15 EDT 2002
  
  Taking the liberty to post a message by this thread's veteran Srikanth, about this KK loop controversy!
  
  "I am some what clear it is flicked from ARR. We need to know more about these loops. Ilio, Eastwest are some the top of the line loop makers. If at all arr uses loops it will be from them. Secondly if you see these loops are just bits. Loops are not made this way. There will be a separate beat groove, then a string groove then something else. Then we use a sampler to combine them. Here everthing is combined. This itself shows its been cut from some cd or tape. I dont
  believe this public domain flash site, these clips (I would not call it a loop) is cut from some dj remixes. I know about "n" number of djs who does this for living!"
  
  

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