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Where did Hey Ram and Sirai Chaalai' music fail in relation to the epic Lagaan

Topic started by rf (@ 172.164.126.190) on Sun Oct 21 02:08:51 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Lagaan is a must see, though it did not come from Chennai, it is a must see to understand so many things about what TFM and TFilms in general have missed out in catering to a global audience. An actor who gave us Appoorva Sahotharargal with Ilayaraja Hey Ram was a big mistake and lacking in thinktank. Kamalhasan depended on Hype for that abstract storyline to sell. Sirai Chaalai was too stuffed i believe with elements that it lacked proper perspective and its songs were just ordinary attempts. A period film should have the type of music ARR created for Lagaan. Amazing stuff! (IMHO, Lagaan has become my favorite film in all aspects (screenplay, acting, story, casting and the bgm and songs)while Apoorva Sahotharargal is my second favorite...) I am saying that IR should come out of his mould and look at a world audience in taking up assignments like period films and be open to suggestions/criticisms/information and keep eyes and ears to the ground. IMHO, directors prpoducers are shunning him because audience has changed but IR cares only for Mozart and Bach and not for contemporary ideas. Lagaan is a good lesson for how Marudanayagam's music should be composed. I know HCIRF cannot accept this, it will take time as it took me (SuperFanofIR) to learn.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: pardhu (@ 202.54.26.125) on: Wed Oct 24 14:13:08 EDT 2001
  
  Donot say IR has no potential to change his style
  He simply has no need. He has achieved much more than any
  other Indian director has so forth.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed Oct 24 14:14:52 EDT 2001
  
  "To term the 50 million people india as musically illitrate will be the height of arrogance"
  Common Friend, Is this in response to my post ? If so, I did not in any way hint or say anything of this sort. I just said IR is too 'south indian'ish in a nutshell. And elaborated why this is not bad but good.
  Please read my posts carefully, I know my limitations, and so take enough time to proof read it and try to be focussed as much as I can.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Oct 24 14:31:14 EDT 2001
  
  //"Donot say IR has no potential to change his style "//
  
  no one said that! but please also be aware that IR will find it hard to back that potential up with evidence in the last decade.
  
  //"He simply has no need. He has achieved much more than any other Indian director has so forth."//
  
  so what?
  
  so that proves my claims about "escapist psycology". A self-deceiving impression that one's name is bigger than the game itself.
  
  If you feel that you have nothing to prove. retire or stop comparing and competing.
  
  Thats the last statement i hear people make when the run out of arguments!
  
  if that were true gavaskar and kapil should be playing for indian team based on their past performances alone...
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed Oct 24 14:48:14 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath can you email me.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Oct 24 15:06:12 EDT 2001
  
  trend: you wrote (a couple of days ago) kiru,
  
  Digression:
  
  Look what came after you.:)It seems like my fear has been justified by your "friend".I think from now onwards I will try to refrain from posting anything directly to you. Frankly speaking, I don't have anything against you.One direct posting to you and you saw the compliments I got.
  
  i am writing this only place in record few things. please dont bother to respond because even if you did i am not going to (it's not worth my time and energy). anyways, if you had really kept your eyes open, srikanth had attacked kiru in the past, swamiji had attacked udhaya in the past and i have never "justified" anybody's "fear" by acting as a "friend" of those being attacked. THIS time i did because of your vacuous innuendos. THIS time i did because of continual vacuos innuendos. if you remove you mask of sarcasm and accept your ignorance of music or your untamed worship of any particular musician, i wouldn't have responded in "that friendly manner". anyways, it's all in the game.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed Oct 24 15:08:51 EDT 2001
  
  Hot arguments.....but finally who's proving what?...IR best or ARR best?? OK the arguments you put forward is close to prove one of them is best..So what?....Is it going to be beneficial for you some way..or to them...or to anybody at all...
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Wed Oct 24 15:15:40 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  
  /*the normal change that a MD re-invents on himself wasnt done by IR*/
  /* IR also is only a trend setter but a BAD reactor to new trends... */
  
  I think the following posting of urs answers the above 2 of urs:)
  
  “But seriously as much as I wud appreciate a person trying to stand out in a crowd with his strong conviction in his philosophy of music, I would expect that person to tolerate failiures that may come in the form of people not being upto speed with him.”
  
  /*so that proves my claims about "escapist psycology". A self-deceiving impression that one's name is bigger than the game itself.*/
  
  if the above is ur opinion abt IR, then I should say that he doesn’t think that way.
  
  CF,
  
  /*But, What's lacking in IR now, that was in aboundance in him in 1980s?*/
  
  Something may be lacking in him. But more than that I think it is the change in peoples taste for (so called) music that matters and is making the difference!
  
  /*See, when a song like "Didi didi" or "maria" by rikky martin become a huge hit here in India, why not a good songs of IR (actually some great songs )…*/
  
  peoples taste again. Who do u think is/are the real loser(s) here – the people or the composer?
  
  Kiru,
  
  /*I do think music is a universal language, but I would not expect popular music to transcend certain cultural and ethnic differences.*/
  
  I wish to add that not only popular music, but no (single) music can appeal to everybody. In that sense, I don’t think music is a universal language. (quite a controversial statement this:-))
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Oct 24 15:33:25 EDT 2001
  
  KS,
  
  "stand out in a crowd", "conviction in his philosophy of music" does not preclude re-invention and certainly does not justify a defect of BAD reaction to new trends. It wud then mean that IR's philosophy of music is to remain stagnant.
  
  since thats NOT true.your quote of me is not an automatic answer to my question!
  
  The point is even while striving hard to maintain INDIVIDUALITY one should remember to do the regular changes one does to themselves in the natural course of time.
  
  In an effort to remain loyal to the IR of 1990, IR should not stop himself from doing changes to his style of music...that he wud have done if ARR had not come on the scene!
  
  IR of 1990 was just a passing phase..he wud have changed himself to a new style.. who know he would have come up with the "new sounds" that r now being credited to ARR, if ARR had not been in the scene.
  
  So if he had done them anyway why should he abstain from doing so just because ARR came up with it first.
  
  or why doesnt he try and doing something as new as what ARR did? simply just "why doesnt he compete" isnt that the best form of survival!
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.237) on: Wed Oct 24 15:37:41 EDT 2001
  
  hihi:-),
  
  Digression:
  
  I expected a response from someone else but I'm getting it from you.Now, I understand that silence can speak volumes.Great!
  
  "anyways, if you had really kept your eyes open, srikanth had attacked kiru in the past, swamiji had attacked udhaya in the past and i have never "justified" anybody's "fear" by acting as a "friend" of those being attacked."
  
  I don't know why you are going to this extent to bring other people to defend yourself.
  
  "THIS time i did because of your vacuous innuendos"
  
  Don't tell me, I haven't posted any vacuous innuendos to anyone else or at any other time.I know what happened!
  You happened to be free(not busy and with energy)
  to read this vacuous innuendo of mine and you responded. But you were busy when I posted countless other vacuous innuendos.Now I get a clearer picture!
  
  "accept your ignorance of music"
  
  I have said it many times but I will say it once more.Just visualize me in a courtroom in front of a judge under oath: "I don't have any music knowledge and I'm totally ignorant to music."
  
  Actually I liked the way you responded in a "friendly" manner.I think I'm getting to know you more.
  
  It's all in the game and I don't want to waste any more of your productive time or energy.
  
  All the above IMO
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.237) on: Wed Oct 24 15:43:09 EDT 2001
  
  Small Correction:
  This
  "Just visualize me in a courtroom in front of a judge under oath."
  should be
  "Just visualize me under oath in a courtroom in front of a judge ."
  :-)
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Wed Oct 24 16:27:18 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  
  /*“does not preclude re-invention and certainly does not justify a defect of BAD reaction to new trends”*/
  
  “conviction in his philosophy of music” is certainly not independent of lack of it in new trends. That being the case, not taking to new trends may be seen as “BAD reaction to new trends” which may not be right. I certainly do notice him doing new things in his compositions.
  
  Going by the last 2 lines of ur postings it is evident that u want IR to do something like what ARR had done. That doesn’t seem justified. Don’t mistake not taking to too much of electronica/digital stuff as not being creative or lacking in innovation. (in case it matters, he has used a little bit of electronica even in Kutti). I believe he is being quiet creative in his compositions which are more native than what others can even imagine.
  
  Also, I am sure u didn’t mean the second last statement in ur posting.
  
  /*simply just "why doesnt he compete" isnt that the best form of survival!*/
  looking the other way around, I will say that others can’t compete in what he is doing. This is again probably got to do with “conviction in his philosophy of music” which is what I too can relate closely with (whatever that is:)). And after these 8 yrs I believe he knows how to survive (all alone) than anybody else.
  
  Also, on a general note, I feel competing always may not be the best form of survival.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Oct 24 16:38:50 EDT 2001
  
  //"Also, on a general note, I feel competing always may not be the best form of survival. "//
  
  reminds me of something E.R Braithwaithe said about the difference between "living and existing" in his short story "in the grip of prejudice" ( X std CBSE) and his movie "to sir with love".
  
  
  //"Going by the last 2 lines of ur postings it is evident that u want IR to do something like what ARR had done"//
  
  no an emphatic NO.. i cud have even suggested the opposite... I as driving a point of doing "innovations" that wud take the public by storm an album of the impact of "agni nathc.." or "anjali"...
  
  I was assuming that IT was aware he hasnt done that kind of magic in a long time... Bharathi was a gentle reminder but NOT the real thing...
  
  
• From: dinesh (@ 213.121.248.90) on: Wed Oct 24 16:49:34 EDT 2001
  
  rf cock up -- u dont know anything about music -- arr is a disgrace to music cos he copies
  
  

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