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IR - SOME SAYS HE'S NOT A GOOD SOUND ENGINEER

Topic started by dvd (@ 161.142.100.85) on Thu Feb 22 22:47:43 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

HI! I am HCF of IR. I am a fan of ARR too.
Comparing both of these great fames, some claims that even though IR is far more superior in terms of music writing, all classical items (Western or Indian), ragas, melody etc., IR lacks in sound engineering aspects.

ARR, in contrast, produces music of superb sound quality (I think no one denies this fact).

My question here is, how good (or bad rather) is IR in terms of sound quality management and engineering (SQME). Would like people with deep techno-acoustic knowlegde to share their precious views in this thread. Which is more crucial, rhytm or sound quality? What happens if both of them meet?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.163) on: Mon Feb 26 04:39:54 EST 2001
  
  Who was the sound Er for Priya?
  
  
• From: AnalogLover (@ 209.187.151.146) on: Mon Feb 26 10:49:35 EST 2001
  
  eden:
  
  I was listening to "Priya" yesterday, the notes flowing from right channel to left channel and vice versa and, do I have to tell you that the recording is awesome. People will say IR's songs do not cover the entire range of the equalizers. Who cares about that as long as the sound is sweet? I guess IR's recording is not that poor like people portray here and agree that he missed bringing the quality to the pre-recorded tapes. I wish to listen his compositions in his studio speakers. Personally I feel more joy in analog recordings than digital ones. They are sweeter than this digital recording. You should listen to his "ninaivellam nithya", man, what a recording? what an album?
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Mon Feb 26 11:24:24 EST 2001
  
  kiru, thanks for your explanation.
  
  Guys, I totally agree with Priya recording. Yesterday, I was hearing 'thendrale ennai thodu' song thendral vandhu ennai thodum....The quality is just unexplainable. The song reached peak heights because of the recording quality too..The movie was released in 1985 ie (16 years before), I guess. The song is just haunting!
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Feb 26 11:48:38 EST 2001
  
  Like I said IR would surely adopt any new technology which really enhances musical experience (like he did with reverb/echo/stereo effects). But he would never use that as crutches.
  
  Re: range. There is more dynamic range in IRs composition. (Volume goes from low to high vice versa and IR has silences too). This is how classical music is done. It is the POP musicians who will never let the volume down. They'll use compression and stuff like that so that they dont lose the attention of their listeners :). Classical music needs more involvement from the listeners.
  
  Re: spectrum. I know that IR maintains the 'tone' of the song. Actually, based on the movies the whole album has a 'character' to it. You can tell which song is from which movie. So the 'spectrum' (the # of instruments used) is limited by this criterion.
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.203.137) on: Mon Feb 26 12:06:01 EST 2001
  
  Makkale
  U guys show tremendrous enthu on this subject
  My suggestion is why not have a chat with IR himself at TFM page.
  That will be helpful to all of us.
  Heard IR spares time for other activities as well
  (since he is free)so why cant someone in TFM or Raajangham coduct a internet chat with him
  wont that be great!!
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.36) on: Mon Feb 26 12:06:09 EST 2001
  
  In these 'well-recorded' songs, including 'thendral vanthu ennaith thodum', why does is feel like the singers are singing from inside a deep well?
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Mon Feb 26 12:18:47 EST 2001
  
  Kiru,
  
  "Actually, based on the movies the whole album has a 'character' to it. You can tell which song is from which movie. So the 'spectrum' (the # of instruments used) is limited by this criterion".
  
  I didn't understand this exactly.Does this mean two songs from the same movie can be identified musically?And one song from other movie will not have this musical feature?
  
  "Like I said IR would surely adopt any new technology which really enhances musical experience"
  Do you mean to say IR's songs will have the clarity the latest technology has to offer?
  
  
• From: Analog (@ 209.187.151.146) on: Mon Feb 26 12:46:34 EST 2001
  
  Do you mean to say IR's songs will have the clarity the latest technology has to offer?
  
  Not exactly. Every old technology has its own limitations. IR songs were recorded using old technology, so obviously IR songs will not have the clarity you get from latest tech. But sound engineering is an interesting topic altogether. Except sound, in all other fields, the new technology will be better in every aspect from the old tech. But in sound, even though digital data is clearer than analog, it cannot bring the smooth sound. Analog has that quality by birth(?), nowadays there are CD players out there trying to imitate to bring the same sound quality. I don't know how good they are.
  
  
  My wish is IR should go back to Analog recording instead of jumping to digital. The other day I was listening to Pink Floyd's "Dark side of the moon". Though it is not done by Digital, the depth they have in sound is amazing. With proper analog recording you can reach heights.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Feb 26 13:16:04 EST 2001
  
  "I didn't understand this exactly.Does this mean two songs from the same movie can be identified musically?And one song from other movie will not have this musical feature? "
  Yes, though this is a subjective opinion, rather than a statistical conclusion. Drastic examples would be agni natchathiram, anjali, n. nithya, etc. The songs are done in concert with the story line. It is not like two happy songs, one pathos, two fast paced song etc formula. For eg. Mugam,Pushpak etc did not have songs at all. While other movies had just religious/pathos songs dominant.
  
  
  AnalogLover, were you listening to DSOTM on LP ? I also know there is a opinion that Analog is 'smooth' compared to digital. This I believe is introduced by 'quantization errors'. That is why some people want to move to 24bits and not necessarily higher sampling rates. Even now people use analog tape masters and finally put it out on CD (16bit/44.1khz). But 24bit/96Khz and DSD tape masters are good. I have heard 24bit/96Khz in my stereo system and it is absolutely fantastic. People say SACD is far better. But I dont want to spend $1500 on a SACD player now.
  
  What do you mean by IR should 'go back to Analog' ? He has to release in CD anyways. if you are saying that he should stick to natural instruments and not use synths/keyboards I am with you on that.
  (BTW, there is something called a Tadded Digital Antidote which corrects phase errors in the analog domain. And this device is supposed to make CD sound 'smooth' like LPs).
  
  Anyways, I have been spending too much time here today. Gotta go do some work or atleast make others work :)
  
  
  
• From: Rajni (@ 203.108.191.45) on: Mon Feb 26 17:33:48 EST 2001
  
  Don't visit Tamil Cinema 4 U site. The copy everything from http://www.movies-tamil.com
  
  
  
  
• From: Rajni (@ 203.108.191.45) on: Mon Feb 26 17:34:01 EST 2001
  
  Don't visit Tamil Cinema 4 U site. The copy everything from http://www.movies-tamil.com
  
  
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Mon Feb 26 18:38:04 EST 2001
  
  Rajni,
  
  If you want to promote your site, do it the proper way. this kind of spamming is only going to drive away people from your site. believe me, i am never going to visit your site :-(
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.225.175.228) on: Mon Feb 26 20:02:55 EST 2001
  
  oh! was he is really expecting people to visit this site i did not know that :)
  
  i hear some one...whispering:
  "The copy everything from http://www.movies-tamil.com" na ena naina..artham.....
  
  :)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Mon Feb 26 23:15:29 EST 2001
  
  comment,
  
  The copy everything from http://www.movies-tamil.com>na ena naina..artham.....
  
  idhu thaevaya???
  then you will get three to four postings for clarifying ur doubt
  
  
• From: Analog (@ 209.187.151.146) on: Tue Feb 27 10:36:08 EST 2001
  
  kiru:
  
  I was listening to DSOTM vinyl in a shop. But I do have the CD version of it. I am still searching to get a vinyl copy of it.
  
  I was wrong in my last posting about only in sound engineering, the new technology lacks the smoothness. Yesterday I was reading about photography. It seems like Digital photography lacks the smoothness of pictures produced by 35 mm SLRs. Anyway enough for digression.
  
  Now take "Bharathy" & "Devan Magan", B is done by digital recording and DM I assume done by analog. B certainly lacks the quality DM has. So what I actually meant was You don't have to go to Digital technology to make an album better. It is really sad that IR too jumped to this digital bandwagon, and certainly todays IR albums make me cry. And ofcourse his choices of instruments (new synths etc)are just too bad. It just does not seem right medium for him.
  
  IR has brought new sound engineering technolody to TFM world. But they are not prominent and were just playing the backend role. Or atleast no one talks about it aloud. I am not denying the fact ARR brought digital to TFM. But people always talk like ARR is the only one brought some change in recording. It is like talking about specs instead of enjoying how the sound actually sounds.
  
  
  
• From: Analog (@ 209.187.151.146) on: Tue Feb 27 10:49:49 EST 2001
  
  I missed two lines...
  
  ......one brought some change in recording. I have some friends who happen to be ARR fans. They always talk about recording but they miss one point. It is like talking .....
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue Feb 27 11:07:38 EST 2001
  
  Do you think thEvar magan is analog master ? I am not so sure, because I dont hear any tape hiss at all. It is probably a good digital recording. bArathy's flute seems to be synthetic. I also did not like the artificial sibilance and silly stereo effects going back and forth the left/right channel. Even though IR did very will in agninatchathiram with the synth drum kit, most of his compositions are ambient recordings and the natural decay of real instruments is what is required. I listen to classical music on CD and radio and the strings and horns in it are much sweeter than in IR's recordings. So there is definitely scope for improvement, even with natural instruments. There is no need to resort to synth. (siRaichAlai also sounded very good. I am looking for the CD but not find it). Anyways, let me see whether we can communicate our feelings re: recording to IR or his sound engineers. I know that he really loves natural instruments and if we communicate this to him he will be really happy to hear it.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue Feb 27 11:11:30 EST 2001
  
  Digression: I am into photography. I own a Canon SLR. I also shoot on slides. I dont seem myself buying a Digital Still Camera in the near future. No good. I do have a Digital Camcorder, because I want to transfer that onto VCD without any ADC.
  
  

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