Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

'Pure' Tamil Lyrics?

Topic started by NaNbaN (@ hzarour.ap.bdi.gte.com) on Fri Apr 14 19:56:23 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

TFM has been debating 'Corruption' of Tamil Lyrics for longtime and offlate it seems to have increased tremendously (Thanks to vaali and VM)

My Argument is.....

Why should Lyrcist restrict themshelves to 'Pure' Tamil when a common man casually speaks atleast one English word per sentence. I cannot come up with pure Tamil in every sentence I speak. I guess that is case with everyone.

When Film characters express themshelves in a dialogue or song, they are expressing themshelves and I find no reason not to use Tamil when it is natural for the character. For example, it sounds natural for Educated Tamil Character to say "sorry" than to say "Mannithuvedunkal".
Songs are also supposed to be expression of characters, so why should the character consiously eliminate Tamil words and that too in song alone. Sounds weird!

Skeptic people want 'PURITY' song Lyrics whereas they are pretty comfortable with other parts of film to be 'IMPURE'. Hero can speak English at full length and he can wear western outfits...A 1940 Tanjavur girl can ask her hubby "can I hug you"(Thanks to Heyram). Every non-Tamil practice is allowed except for singing in English words. How would you like if ArvindSwamy Aijth & vijai comes in Tradiational Tamil dress say vayisstee & shirt all the time in all movies. (Hell how do u spell it). Weird tooo...

Tamil moviedom skirted Artificialism and 'Pure' Tamil in 1970's Thanks for Balachander and Bharathiraja we saw some realism in Tamil Movies.
so whatz all this debate about 'Pure' Tamil.

Mind. I don't support/enjoy a ruppee/like current Tamil movies. But criticizing VM for corrupting Tamil is weird when in reality the same English words are frequently used by all
Tamilians.

There lot of English-Tamil songs which make some sense to audience.
Eg:
1. Hello Miss Hello miss... (MGR)
2. Usage of LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT ABOUT TURN in old song.(I don't remember the song)
3. Senorita I love My Sweetheart You love (Jhonny)
4. One..two..three..four..five..listen to the music (punnagai mannan)

Well there must be more...

I too hate using Englsh words just for the sake of using it songs. Thatz so idiotic. You know what Kodambakkam will say " Thatz the trend".

Hell with the trend!

Anyway I think you expecting 'pure' Tamil lyrics is unrealistic and bit weird.

Tamilan,
NaNbaN

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sat Apr 15 17:34:39 EDT 2000
  
  chandy,
  instead of thinking of ana lternative word forolive, strawberry etc. why not think of totally different words in tamil itself? that's my point. VM did not have this necessity to search for tamil equivalents in the early 80s. so nwhy now all of a sudden this trend?
  is it because he feels that to match rahman's pop style's music he has to include english words?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sat Apr 15 17:36:22 EDT 2000
  
  Cram,
  u have expressed my thoughts and rephrased what I have said in a concise manner. thanx;))
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sat Apr 15 17:44:05 EDT 2000
  
  instead of strawberry kanne, he could have had kayal vizhi kanne or something like that without disturbing the sandham of the song. that's my point. its not as if that if he leaves out strawberry, there are'nt any other words in tamil to fill that space. it only creates an awkward feeling in listeners like me.
  
  i re-iterate that mouna raagam songs are still good examples for duets and romantic songs.
  even in marupadiyum u have great songs like nalam vaazha etc. that convey the meaning effectively without polluting the lyrics with foreign words.
  
  also eden, cram and others english is not the only one iam talking about. even hindi words have unnecessarily entered our lyrics. iam talking about adulteration(of anylanguage)- free tamil.
  
  words like mukkaala muqabla and dilubaru jaane dont make any sense to me. it gives me the impression that the lyricist was lazy of thinkin rhyming words in those spots ans he just came up with whatever words that struck his mind whether it be hindi or english. that's what irritates me.
  
  
• From: Neel (@ ts004d42.har-ct.concentric.net) on: Sat Apr 15 18:17:21 EDT 2000
  
  All those songs with adulterated lyrics have a very short life. They may be big hits when they are new. But it is the purest lyrics that become classics.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ ttdslppp82.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Apr 15 22:33:00 EDT 2000
  
  vijay,
  if VM had put kayal vizhi kanne , we would not have this discussion, basically
  1. it is catchy, everone will hum. (same words were used in hindi too...)
  2. This is not epic or poetic work, it is a film song, as a musician is let free in popular music, lyricist also has a freedom, secondly,
  it makes much sense than the words...jingidi jingidi or jumbalaka etc.
  
  Starwberry.. what is the tamil word for this ?...
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sat Apr 15 23:08:21 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth,
  if VM had put kayal vizhi kanne we would not be having this discussion and that is precisely my point. why can't he put something like that?
  did'nt people hum ninukori varnam or raja rajaadhi raajan or ohoh megam vandhadho? u can have english words when the situation demands like in nadodi thendral but using it unncessarily is unforgiveable. and what is prabhudeva in that film, a barber? A barber singing strawberry only sounds funny.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ ttdslppp82.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sat Apr 15 23:20:06 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay, do you speak only tamil at home., why cant a barber say starwberry!...he might be a creative barber..i will not accept, adding english has nothing to do,we use english everywhere why not insongs, in few olden days songs, they use the word violin, is this a tamil word...
  hey this is light music, there no harm in using english, IMHO words he uses are very apt for the song, as far as it is sensible...
  
  How does kajol's eyes look ? :), I am thinking differently, you saw prabhu deva, i am seeing kajol...:))
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Apr 16 00:33:49 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth,
  
  as I said if it is needed in the context of the situation it is OK.
  when ravichandran sings come come on komaane in kaadalikka neramillai it does'nt look awkward. but it does look awkward to me when i hear these types of lyrics. especially if u contrast it with olden day lyrics it looks almost the wose. this trend is only in the last 5 or 6 years.
  
  thottadhukkellam english, hindi vaarthaigala use panna arambichutaanga. that's what is disappointing. laser dic, viagara, cellular phone and what not? it would not be far when we would have words like dvd, washing machine, database etc.
  
  washing machine pola en nennjai thuvaippaval
  how does it sound?;))
  And iam disappointed with both IR and ARR for not taking adequate care in the lyrical dept.
  ARR puts 1001 conditions saying that his cassette should get released atleast 1 month before the film release etc. why can't he put a condition to VM to cut out all his crappy lyrics and write like how he used to when he came into the scene.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Apr 16 00:35:27 EDT 2000
  
  Adding to the above, in yesterday's interview ARR himself said that songs that are catchy alone would not do and only songs that are good as well as carry good lyrics would stand the test of time.
  in spite of knowing all this he carries the dubious distinction of having composed max. no of songs having foreign words in the shortest span of time.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu) on: Sun Apr 16 02:14:51 EDT 2000
  
  vijay
  
  Alavukku minjinal amirthamum nanjaagum... This phrase exactly reflects use of english/`alien' words in TFM. IMO, a limited usage of english words (olive, strawberry...) is fine.. but if its in excess, then it could get irritating...
  
  The trend of using these english words in TFM music is quite recent.. a post-1990 phenomenon. Most Indians were exposed to Star TV, more "western" stuff only in 1990s.. and this certainly had its impact on TFM lyrics too. May, VM himself got exposed to these words in 1990s... his vocab probably also increased only after his US-trip and media exposure in 1990s.. thats probably the reason why he didnt pen these words in 1980s..
  
  There is a trend to nationalise/globalise music these days.. The trend on multilingual films has increased in 1990s.. and of course, use of english words make the job easier when its dubbed. (srikanth pointed out the use of the word `strawberry'in Hindi too... the Jeans songs and Indian songs in Hindi also carry similar english words (digital, telephone, melbourne, computer) like their tamil counterparts). I personally didnt like the execessive use of english words in "telephone mani pol". It eased the dubbing in Hindi.. plus the picturisation fo the song in "global' setting, to some extent, justified use of words like melbourne... Similar is the case with Jeans songs which has names of American cities and places..
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Apr 16 02:31:04 EDT 2000
  
  chandy,
  this trend to nationalise /globalise is what causing a detriment to our quality of music and films. this is IMO. I would discuss about it perhaps in some other thread. anyway I stand by my opinion that the lyrics at present is more adulterated to what it was 10-15 years back and this is going to drive away genuine music listeners;))
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 1cust9.tnt2.irving2.tx.da.uu.net) on: Sun Apr 16 17:01:25 EDT 2000
  
  I agree with Srikanth comments.
  
  The point I am trying to stress is...
  
  Asking for 'pure' Tamil only in lyric works is unjustified. If valli or VM has used English words in thier litetary works I can agree they have corrupted Tamil. Whereas Tamil songs are not product Lyrcist alone but it is team work of Director-MD-lyrcist. Also I believe Tamil songs are not anywhere near to litetary works. I agree there are more english words used in lyrics than ever before..but hey aren't we using English words in our daily life than ever before. If your are really instered in preserving Tamil. We have to reform ourshelves b4 questioning lyricst Tamil-Intregrity.
  
  Films has been commercialized way back and it not 'pure' art form aymore. If our soceity is expecting Tamil filmdom to lift our culture and preserve traditionalism. Sorry sir you are in completely wrong place.
  
  Excessive English will die down gradually... and I guess we will settle down to middle path in coming years.
  
  
  NaNbaN
  
  
• From: Neel (@ ts003d13.har-ct.concentric.net) on: Sun Apr 16 17:41:34 EDT 2000
  
  If cinema can help create chief ministers (atleast 3 of them for sure) why can't cinema help preserve/flourish a language. Cinema songs reach every corner in Tamilnadu and if used properly it can help save a language. The moviemakers have to think of it as their responsibilty. Unfortunately they don't. It does not all have to be business or entertainment.
  Also, they write such lazy and less than intelligent lyrics and then blame the general public saying that we asked for it. They make the general public look dumb.
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 1cust233.tnt2.irving2.tx.da.uu.net) on: Sun Apr 16 20:37:08 EDT 2000
  
  Neel you have good points.
  I guess we lack 'real' heroes in our soceity making way for 'Movie'heroes to become 'Real' heroes. :-)
  
  Well moviemakers can take sincere part in reforming the society. But as I said earlier Film has become too much commercialzed to expect that such a thing will happen. I know KB and BR have touched quite a few topics which are quite reforming. But that was the "Trend" at that time. Now the "Trend" is different.
  
  The moviemakers have to think of it as their responsibilty.
  Well I guess everyone and every field has to take that responsibility. Tell me field which is better than Films?. Tell me person who thinks of national & Traditional value every time he acts. So expect such sincere effort from Filmdom alone sounds unjustified to me.
  
  Also, they write such lazy and less than intelligent lyrics and then blame the general public saying that we asked for it. They make the general public look dumb.
  
  lol...I totally agree. I have felt liek dumber all the time.
  
  Dumb,
  NaNbaN
  
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments