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Did MSV have ANY musical defects?

Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ nova1.cs.wisc.edu) on Wed Sep 30 15:21:55 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Let me make one thing clear: I am not against MSV, but am merely curious about this topic.

I have made an interesting observation. We have so many criticisms of IR and ARR, but I've not seen any criticism of MSV. I haven't listened to many MSV songs, but I wasn't very impressed by whatever I have heard on TV. Whatever it is, I cannot imagine that he did not have any musical defects. Could anyone point them out? I am very interested. It might test the "objectivity" of certain "objective" people regarding the IR-ARR "war"(I'm not hinting at anyone, please do not misunderstand this), but nevertheless, I want to pursue this.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ramki (@ ws122.telsoft.net) on: Tue Feb 15 13:55:08 EST 2000
  
  Srinath and Anand Mahadevan why dont you guys continue your discussion in several other IR threads(IR creativity etc etc)?Let this one focus on MSV
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.65) on: Tue Feb 15 14:04:14 EST 2000
  
  Srinath and Anand,
  Though a digression here, I greatly enjoyed both your thoughts. Please do continue elsewhere, I would love to read it. It's been a long time since I read articulated thoughts in this forum.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ mail.startec.net) on: Tue Feb 15 14:05:10 EST 2000
  
  ...and MSV was not like that ! :-)
  
  There ! Ramki :-) The thread is back on track !
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Tue Feb 15 16:30:25 EST 2000
  
  enna Ramki.. nalla digression-ai niRuththitteengaLE?
  Srinath and AM.. why don't you continue, like
  Udhaya said, in another thread.. perhaps a new
  one?
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ spider-to062.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Feb 15 17:27:02 EST 2000
  
  rameshb,
  I agree that in melody making skills, MSV may be unmatched. But I still want to hear from knowledgable netters, whether it is fair to give MSC credits for his orchestration skills. If I am not mistaken, not long ago, there were some discussion on MSV's orchestrations, high lighting counter points and other things. How far he can take credit for is the big question, if it is indeed his assitants had played a big role?
  
  Thanks
  e.hari
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ ptp140.telsoft.net) on: Tue Feb 15 19:47:19 EST 2000
  
  SK my intention is not to stop their discussion i just wanted them to move it to other IR threads. I like to see atleast one thread that doesnt end up singing glories of Ilaiayaraja.Hope my point is understood.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 209.8.128.113) on: Tue Feb 15 20:22:46 EST 2000
  
  Understood Ramki. Ungalukku romba nalla ennam.
  
  
• From: sk (@ boo.ucar.edu) on: Tue Feb 15 21:10:12 EST 2000
  
  Ramki:
  
  Got it. :-))
  
  
• From: KonradFernandez (@ ) on: Thu Apr 20 00:11:12 EDT 2000
  
  RA
  
  It was an amazing article on IR and his way of making music. You are really a fortunate guy to have got this opportunity to watch the great man in action from such close quarters. And more than that, you have the ability and understanding to share it with others....when one reads that you effortlessly transport us to the studio.
  
  What I liked most is that, you have made it more general for a common man...with out bombarding us with more intricate musical fundas.....so certainly it can reach more people......people who may not know music technically but can appreciate and enjoy good music and that they have been doing with IR's music for the past two decades.
  
  KF
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Apr 21 06:48:38 EDT 2000
  
  RAjee,
  ungal sevai IR rasiga kodigalukku thevai.
  ungalai eppadiyavathu sandhikkanume, mudiyuma? adiyen madras-la thaan irukken.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ wp3.ericy.com) on: Thu May 4 18:32:24 EDT 2000
  
  Finally I got hold of Ninaithale Inikkum CD. When I was listening to the songs (all thro the time I had a chance to listen to the songs only on the movie), man MSV should have been really in his high moods and spirits when he composed all the songs. Many new arrangements for MSV in that album. Just relishing in the songs ....
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu May 4 19:12:21 EDT 2000
  
  Swami,
  this thread is for his musical defects;))
  
  
• From: Swami (@ wp3.ericy.com) on: Thu May 4 19:39:13 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay,
  I searched thro' the archives and I couldn't find any other thread pertaining to MSV.......a pity though. Big deal, inga nadakara "kozhaai adi" sandaigala parkum pozhudhu, I feel the title of the threads doesn't matter really :-).
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Thu May 4 19:46:09 EDT 2000
  
  swami..sariyaa thaan solreenga..
  
  
• From: SM (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com) on: Thu May 4 20:23:22 EDT 2000
  
  Swami,
  
  "Creativity of MSV"nnu oru thread irukke;-)
  
  However, you are absolutely right about "Ninaithaalae Inikkum". 'engaeyum eppodhum', 'Bhaaradhi Kannamma' - great songs!!!
  
  
• From: Rasigan (@ d87-fx101h2-lond-pdi.attcanada.net) on: Fri May 5 01:18:52 EDT 2000
  
  "NINAITHALE INIKKUM", was the title (name) of the movie. The sub-title was: "A MUSICAL EXTRAVAGANZA - by MSV". Even the the wall posters had this sub-title.
  
  Of course, this is what I heard from my grandfather. I wasn't even born when the movie weas released:-))
  
  
• From: pazhuththa_kizham (@ beacon-ext.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri May 5 09:36:50 EDT 2000
  
  mmm.. Suddenly I feel very very old.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Fri May 5 10:10:41 EDT 2000
  
  Rasigan:
  
  are you sure ? :-)
  
  
• From: Ravishankar .G (@ ) on: Mon Jun 12 14:16:46 EDT 2000
  
  A little detour here...MSV has created a world record by scoring music for more than 1000 films (inclusive of his combined work with TK Ramamurthy). I do not know if there are many people who know about his feat.
  
  There is so much life in his music, he has given his life to music...alas...but he has not been conferred with National Award yet. What a pity! Mellisai Maa Mannar, MSV, still is an unassuming UNSUNG hero.
  
  
• From: Pointer (@ 207.82.165.100) on: Mon Jun 12 15:24:37 EDT 2000
  
  ravishankar-ji :))) there is thread called "creativity of msv" :)))
  
  
• From: sk (@ azure-ext.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jun 12 18:43:43 EDT 2000
  
  ravishankar:
  
  I don't think msv even crossed 600 movies.
  Personally I wish he had done much lesser number
  of movies.. especially after 1972 or so! But
  'money making' endru vandha pin Asai yArai vittadhu!
  
  It is possible that SG did nearly 1000 movies.
  Deva will cross their record, I think.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Mon Jun 12 19:15:20 EDT 2000
  
  SG and 1000 movies ? I dont think so. I think MSV has crossed 1000 movies. engEyO padichcha nyaabagam.
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Tue Jun 13 08:51:32 EDT 2000
  
  People have been making this claim sometime now (MSV - 1000+ films). PPP lists 379 films for MSV and 81 movies for MSV-TKR. That's 460 movies total less than 50%.
  
  If people claim 1000+ MSV movies, they should come up with a list.
  
  SG - 1000 movies ? Very hard to believe.
  
  Chakravarty of Telugu film music may have done a lot of movies.
  
  
• From: sk (@ azure-ext.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Jun 13 09:34:30 EDT 2000
  
  pg:
  
  Regarding SG.. I was going by the statement in
  the minnambalam article mentioned in this thread..
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/10090.16.49.17.html
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Jun 14 09:32:58 EDT 2000
  
  sk :
  Considering that SG were never as busy as MSV or IR, it seems highly improbable that they could have scored music for 1000+ movies.
  
  My guess : 300-400 movies max.
  
  
• From: satish (@ 139.85.161.162) on: Thu Jun 15 13:16:22 EDT 2000
  
  my elder brother told me that MSV took the music for "ninathale enikum" as IR was at the peak that time,he was able to give real great music in that movie namma IR kuda ippo andha situationle dhan irukaru, oru masterpiece kudutha nalla irukum
  
  
• From: satish (@ 139.85.161.162) on: Thu Jun 15 13:16:38 EDT 2000
  
  my elder brother told me that MSV took the music for "ninathale enikum" as a challeng as IR was at the peak that time,he was able to give real great music in that movie namma IR kuda ippo andha situationle dhan irukaru, oru masterpiece kudutha nalla irukum
  
  
• From: SHANKAR (@ 194.170.163.12) on: Sat Jun 17 11:28:57 EDT 2000
  
  While going thro' the above review most of it was comparing IR -ARR or how many films. I am a person who listens songs before MSV period till date. As far as MSV he maintained originality.
  Moreover, he was the one to introduce light music
  programme for the first time in Salem, the industry grown up like anything.
  No body realises one thing; during his days he has
  to spend nearly 10 days to compose one song. During that time, no technology advancement like
  to-day. Inspite of all hardships, he gave masterpieces that no-one has given in Tamil film
  till date. In his days there is no much publicity
  for songs/music like what we have to-day. I still regret why he was born so early. He should have
  born now.
  What ever critism people can make, he is like a
  bridge between old and new. As all know every one
  will walk on the bridge, but no one ever bothers about the bridge. MSV'S status is like bridge.
  Forget about TMS; take SPB songs composed by MSV.
  One can convince himslef about his musical skills.
  Still I have lot to write. Let me finish with this.
  SHANKAR
  
  
• From: OSIG (@ ) on: Sat Oct 14 11:22:37 EDT 2000
  
  Mr.Shankar
  
  your views on MSV is right to the core.I think for the sheer variety IR or ARR are no match.IR had a formal music education in western classical and Rahman has today's technology to his support apart from some training in music imparted by his father.But this man MSV,without any formal training in music and with precious little education to understand the technology has done wonders.For eg the songs
  
  " pon magal vanthal /sorgam" and " Poovinum mellya poongodi/Kannan varuvan" are a sound engineer's as well as a musican's delight.
  
  OisG
  
  
• From: S.Padmagirisan,Singapore. (@ ) on: Fri Jun 15 20:13:49 EDT 2001
  
  You are Correct Mr Sankar.Many of this generation,why even that of Illaya Raja,do not know much about the great MSV.I have listened to many of his songs,and I find him to be more than any body of today's,including IR,when we take in to consideration,so many aspects like technology,western musical system that was available,the environment (like it was the begining period of Indian Movies)etc.You see,MSV's first movie is of the period of 1950's.If I am correct,it was 1948,his first movie was relased.I will confirm this data soon at this forum. As far as I know,If at all,Illyaraja respects somebody, that is MSV.I have personally seen this at his "Pancahmugi" concert at Chennai.
  
  And IR's Son KR and Bhavatharini went to receive MSV's blessings firstly,to take up their start in CINE industry.
  
  The greatest contributor to MGR,Shivaji movies's success is again MSV.Since those days were of Hero's Period,MSV's glory was unsung.Still,for a reasonably good recording technology having been used and for the quality of the songs and their freshness,I quote"Ulagam Sutrum Valiban" songs.Please listen to them.
  
  I have seen the interviews given by many MD of Tamil Cine World.I have seen that every MD,including ARR,DEVA,SA Rajkumar(just to quote some people who are presently in the scene)praising MSV with highest respect possible.It is not definetly because of his age.Hi guys,Pls listen to his songs as many as possible.Then You will all know what I mean.Just do not talk counterpoints,Inversions etc.Just because one had not used western systems,we can not under_mine ones own greatness.It is like blaming MSV for not having used DVD system technologies.
  
  Still would be contributing,
  
  S.Padmagirisan,Singapore.
  padmagirisan@yahoo.com
  
  
• From: kk (@ 205.188.195.216) on: Sat Jun 16 03:25:43 EDT 2001
  
  All these western music system you are talking about are century old stuff. It was existing all along. All the instruments IR used was same as what MSV and others had. Only difference is recording tech slighty improved, that realy didnt matter.
  
  The truth is IR had his own bag of new tricks, that MSV might have overlooked. There might be few aspects where MSV exceled than IR too. No body is undermining MSV, but in the process dont try to ignore what IR did.
  
  This thread just trys to find out if there was anything wrong with his music, same can be done for IR also. No one is perfect. If perfect music is made then there wont be need for making anything more.
  
  

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