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Old Songs

Topic started by TFM Group on Tue Jan 27 15:47:28 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Bhasker (@ host194.visualweb.cust.superlink.net) on: Wed Mar 8 18:18:38 EST 2000
  
  oru nAL pOdhuma:
  
  There are two ways in which I look at this song - at a more specific level at the lyrics and at a more generic level in terms of what it stands for.
  
  Looking from a generic view, this song symbolises the age-old battle between talent with arrogance vs. God's inordinate urge (as depcited by popular opinion) to put it down. Ayn Rand used to get a big kick out of deriding this popular opinion. In the movie, Panpathrar (T.R.Mahalingam) is clearly a good singer but not a gifted singer by his own assessment. He is known more for his piety as reflected by his music rather than his musical prowess. Whereas, Somanatha Bhagavathar (Baliah) is an awesome singer having established his musical genius. Popular opinion demands that he subjugate his talent to that of Panapathrar.
  
  Look at the songs. On the one hand, we have this mammoth effort by BMK (though it was considered cinematic, it had all the essentials of a good classical piece - more on this later) counter-acted by what I would only call gimmickry on the part of TMS, the MD and the Director (multiple Sivaji Ganesans, seemingly stopping the universe for a moment). Don't get me wrong. I love TMS' voice and his singing and think that he is one of the best things that happened to TFM. However, in this song, he doesn't stand a chance against BMK's singing. TMS' song itself is terrific and has loads of meaning which I will hopefully talk about at another time. Most of the people will only remember these two songs from the movie and actually forget a very creditable performance by TRM who sings two really good songs. I will leave it at this as I think it can be the pre-cursor to a raging debate.
  
  Let us look at the song. It has several lyrical and musical highlights thanks to Kannadasan and BMK:
  
  First Kannadasan:
  
  - the reference to Thirukkural (kuzhal endrum yAzh endrum silar kooruvAr)
  - unfeigned arrogance (en kalaik kindha thirunAdu samamAgumA)
  - the puns (enak kiNaiyAga darbAril evarum undO, kAnadA en pAttai keLadA)
  
  BMK:
  
  - He managed to bring swaras, rAgamAlika and a classically used practice of progressively shrinking a line while retaining its meaning (I forget the technical term for this style but I know that there is one). Here Kannadasan helped too with his lyrics.
  - It is very difficult to represent a rAga in a single line but he did admirably well to give us a glimpse of how Thodi, Darbar, Mohanam and Kanada sound in the last four lines, especially Darbar.
  
  On the whole, a lyrical and singing triumph. God bless all of them who put together this song.
  
  
• From: kk (@ unknown-11-53.ws11.clorox.com) on: Wed Mar 8 23:55:21 EST 2000
  
  There was a later song sung by BMK in Mridanga Chakravarthi picturized on MN Nambiar along similar lines "...ithil thevai enna pakka mELam?.." Sivaji playing the mridangam of course. It'd be interesting to compare the 2 songs.
  
  What's the reference to the thirukkuRaL?
  
  It's become fairly commonplace to compress a rAga in 1 line - for instance, Maharajapuram Santhanam does this in "Saarangan MaruhanE" Even MKT in vasantha ruthu manamOhanamE. Perhaps the most mind-boggling one is Nithyasree's "raagathil sirantha raagam ethu?" with 24 raagams (Ragam1/Amutham CD).
  
  
• From: Bhoori (@ c660409-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) on: Thu Mar 9 01:33:59 EST 2000
  
  Bhaskar: Nice discussion. This is one thread that is really fun to read.
  
  When I was a kid, I remember being amazed at the discovery that the TMS song is considered the "winner" and the BMK song, the loser. I couldnt beleive that and repeatedly asked my mom how was that possible. It is nice to see the same view being brought forth here.
  
  The one thing that wasnt good about the song was that BMKs voice doesnt suit Balaiah at all.
  
  I wish more MDs had taken the trouble to make BMK sing. He may hv sung a dozen songs max. Let me count, Thanga Radham Vandhadhu, Mounatthil Vilaiyadum Mana Satchiye, Chinnak Kannan Azhaikkiran, Oru Naal Podhuma, one song in Sadhu Mirandal - thats all I can remember!
  
  
• From: sk (@ harvest.ucar.edu) on: Thu Mar 9 02:04:12 EST 2000
  
  Bhoori:
  
  The sAdhu miraNdAl song is..
  
  aruLvAyE nee aruLvAyE
  thiruvAi malarndhu aruLvAyE
  
  (Song by: Alangudi Somu, MD: TKR)
  
  KSG's 'suba dhinam' had this song with PS:
  puththam pudhu mEni
  (Movie MD: KVM.. but it seems this song was
  tuned by TGL.)
  
  In the movie, 'vadaimAlai' BMK had this song..
  kEttEn Kannadhasanin geethObadhEsam
  (MD: MSV)
  
  'kavikkuyil' had another BMK song..
  Ayiram kOdi kAlangaLAga
  Anandha leelaiyin nAyagan neeyE
  (MD: IR)
  
  And, then last.. (not worth mentioning at all)
  BMK sang some songs for MGR in 'navaraththinam'..
  songs such as..
  kuruvikkAran poNdAtti
  (MD: kunnakkudi V).
  
  I think these are all the songs that BMK sang in
  TFM. In an interview in SUN TV last week, AL Raghavan
  was talking about his close friendship with BMK
  and how generous and nice a person BMK was. When
  they toured Malaysia in the late 60's it seems
  everywhere people asked for thanga radham
  vandhadhu and oru nAL pOdhumA.. those
  two were the most popular among the audience!
  It seems BMK commented that just those 2 songs
  were sufficient to deeply etch his name in the minds of
  all thamizh people!
  
  
• From: NOV (@ ptl-cache6.jaring.my) on: Thu Mar 9 04:04:55 EST 2000
  
  In fact SK, Oru naal poathumaa paattey poathumaanadhu!
  
  NOV aspiring to be Kannadhasan? :-))
  
  
• From: RR (@ proxy.krdl.org.sg) on: Thu Mar 9 05:03:34 EST 2000
  
  kk: Mirutanga chakravarthy song is 'ithu ketka thigattaatha gaanam'.
  
  sk: there are a few more. 'kalai nilaa aadinaal' (some jai ganesh movie), ? (sigaram. MD: spb).
  
  
• From: sk (@ beacon-ext.nus.edu.sg) on: Thu Mar 9 05:34:35 EST 2000
  
  RR:
  
  Nice to see you back after a long time!
  kaalai nilaa aadinaal.. naan indha paadalai
  kEttadhillai.
  
  I missed one song which came in Shankar-Ganesh's
  music..
  
  rAmanum neeyE krishNanum neeyE
  
  in the movie, 'uyarndhavargaL'.
  
  
• From: Bhasker (@ 209.236.198.124.dialup.superlink.net) on: Thu Mar 9 07:41:50 EST 2000
  
  SK:
  
  I remember attending a concert of BMK as a kid in my neighborhood not because I liked classical music (which I didn't much appreciate at that time) but more because it seemed fun to go. At the end of concert, the audience had asked him to sing oru nAL pOdhuma which he did. People seemed to be equating him with the song and the personality of the character in the movie.
  
  Bhoori: I agree with you that BMK's voice didn't suit Baliah at all. Also, Balaih didn't seem to be very comfortable singing such a classical piece and so much of the song picturization wasn't focussing the camera on him but the audience.
  
  
• From: sk (@ beacon-ext.nus.edu.sg) on: Thu Mar 9 09:29:13 EST 2000
  
  Bhasker:
  
  Your thirukkuRaL comment.. were you referring to
  the kuRaL which goes something like..
  kuzhalinidhu yAzhinidhu enbAr
  mazhalai sol kELAdhAr
  What exactly did you mean there?
  
  I was reading the article by vAmanan (I have
  already given the link to this). MSV has mentioned
  this..
  
  mettai Oriru muRai pAdik kAttinAl adhai swarap
  paduththi appadiyE pAdakkoodiyavanga ennudaya
  anubavaththil 3 pinnaNip pAdagargaLthAn. andha
  mummoorththigaLil mudhalvar BMK.
  
  Now which were the other 2 that MSV was talking about?
  
  
• From: sk (@ beacon-ext.nus.edu.sg) on: Thu Mar 9 09:33:54 EST 2000
  
  Bhasker:
  
  I forgot to mention.. the 'newtfmpage songs of the
  millenium' appears in bright colour at the top
  of the main forum page. You brobably missed
  noticing it.
  
  
• From: Bhasker (@ host194.visualweb.cust.superlink.net) on: Thu Mar 9 10:20:40 EST 2000
  
  SK:
  
  That is exactly what I was referring to. Kannadasan has this knack of paraphrasing popular poems, quotes, couplets, what have you and adapting them to his song compositions. This is not plagiarism - at least in my opinion it is not. Because, I think plagiarism is when you copy someone else's work and pass it off as your own. I think Kannadasan always acknowledged the sources of references. Almost immediately after I joined Pachaiyappa's College in Madras, he came to our college to give a talk. He mentioned his habit of doing this regularly.
  
  In "oru nAL pOdhumA", he paraphrases the kuraL that you mentioned to compare the singer's voice to the mazhalai of a child. I thought that was a nice touch. Here are a few more examples of such paraphrasing:
  
  1. oru kOppaiyilE en kudi iruppu (raththa thilagam): The source for the first four lines is clearly Omar Khayyam but I don't know the exact lines. I can try to hunt them down for you but it will be in English.
  2. thOL kandEn thOLe kandEn (idhayak kamalam): Sounds like Kamba Ramayanam.
  3. I believe that the first four lines of "veedu varia uravu (pAdha kANikkai)" came from some other poet. I can't remember that name now.
  4. chinnan chiru vayadhil enakkOr chiththiram thOndrudhadi (meendum kOkilA): My friends used to take bets with me that this song was actually composed by Bharathiyar but I have never found it in the works of Bharathiyar. It is there in the 5 cassette Legends collection of Kannadasan.
  
  I am sure that there are any number of such references spread all through his work.
  
  
• From: Ramamurthy (@ pppsl773.chicagonet.net) on: Fri Mar 10 11:06:35 EST 2000
  
  Srinivas:
  Give me your e-mail address and I will vcontact you about Laila Majnu audio cassette in Tamil.I have a copy with me.
  Ramamurthy
  
  
• From: Mani (@ sbproxy1.mystarhub.com.sg) on: Mon Mar 13 11:32:45 EST 2000
  
  Hi,
  What a interesting topic this is, wsp, the piece about who is better TMS or BMK.
  
  I think almost all would agree it is BMK. But can you imagine how "Thiruvilayadal" would have turned out if BMK were to have sung for Sivaji.
  
  My friends please take it easy. I think A.P. Nagarajan, the genius, has done the right thing. He had used BMK as a great singer and TMS as a singer having been rejected by TKM in the movie. Remember there is no contest and Baliah was made to flee only because he taught that TKM would be a better singer having heard his reject's song.
  
  And finally Sivaji has been known to prefer TMS' voice as it resembles his own and TMS also can sing with depth which suits Sivaji's superb acting.
  
  
• From: kk (@ unknown-11-88.ws11.clorox.com) on: Tue Mar 14 00:31:38 EST 2000
  
  Talking of BMK: Did he/did he not sing a duet that goes "sarigamapathani enum sapthaswara jaalam, muRaiyudanE purinthu kondAl sangeethamAgum..."? I thought this was in kankaatchi, but it's not there.
  
  

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