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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Oct 6 12:34:03 EDT 2000
  
  Vikram,
  Oops!I forgot about "Thendrale" in Kaadhal Desam.
  that is a very good song.Though Tabu,Vineet and Abbas in the beach killed the spirit of that song.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: MUSIC (@ 202.188.52.89) on: Sat Oct 7 12:18:29 EDT 2000
  
  hey guyz arr song will be really nice to hear at the specific moment(i mean when the movie was released) but ir songs are evergreen .
  
  like how trend said, yeah i liked the song thendrale frm kadhal desam at one time but now its a kinda boring to hear but ir songs are lovely and makes me feel sad, happy or emotional.
  well it depends on the songs perhaps.
  
  but what is important that ir has given his best and arr is still giving his best although it is less memorable!!!
  
  
• From: vikram chander (@ 202.9.148.194) on: Sat Oct 7 13:13:04 EDT 2000
  
  Trend,
  I think you are not getting my point or
  you refuse to do so.By saying KK is not one of
  your favourites you are trying to disqualify yourself not only as an IR fan but also as a fan
  of melodies.Or may be you are lieing to yourself
  and me.Any melody lover cannot but have that song in his favourites list.I'am 100% sure about this
  fact.On the contrary you say Thendralae is a very
  good song(which is not even a patch of KK!Go and
  ask any melody lover if you are not sure)
  Don't say ARR had no oppurtunities.
  He has had many and I also agree that he has come
  up with good numbers.If you want,i will give you
  a list of KK type songs though it is impossible
  to list all.This forum is too small for it.
  Ok Let's consider the same director Manirathnam.
  Do you think Kadhal Rojave in Roja is comparable
  with Nilaave Vaa or O Paapa Laali in Idhayathai
  Thirudaathey.Again and again I'am telling you be
  dispassionate.This is where i think you falter.
  One more thing is that even after 800 odd movies
  he has still not stopped rendering.Listen to Yenge
  sellum in Sethu and Nallathor veenai in Bharathi
  (latest) Arr songs are dominated by mere beats and
  jazz.He can't give quality melodies like raja.He
  occasionally comes up with songs which are not
  beats oriented which you wrongly think as great
  melodies.First of all understand what a melody is.
  It is not only Thaalaattu as you think.It can be
  in any situation.The main qualification is the
  melody should relax you from your mental stresses
  and worries.Arr songs seldom do this.
  coming to oppurtunities again,it is not that raja was given numerous opps.;He converted many situations into opps.Rehman could have done a
  better job with many song situations like Engey
  Enathu kavithai (kandukondein), Evano oruvan (Alai payuthey) and so on.I don't say they are all bad songs(which I can never do if I'am true to myself) It is just that They are in no way
  equal to Raaja's haunting melodies. Let me tell
  you that all superhit songs cannot join the all
  time melody list.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Sun Oct 8 02:30:33 EDT 2000
  
  Vikram,
  You are not getting my point too!So let's end this argument which is not leading anywhere.
  
  Regards,
  Trend
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.123) on: Sun Oct 8 03:57:13 EDT 2000
  
  Vikram...
  
  That Bombay and Roja will not be listened to after, say 12 years, is purely YOUR opinion! Did you do a dipstick poll around the globe to find this startling piece of info?
  
  IR fans will continue to enjoy o pappa laali forever while ARR fans will always enjoy Bombay or Roja, no matter how old they become. All depends of personal opinions.
  
  Please refrain from generalising your personal opinions...old saying...when the cat closes its eyes, it thinks the whole world has become dark! :-)
  
  --Karthik
  
  
• From: chinna_thambi (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Mon Oct 9 16:53:10 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik.S
  
  Mount Everestum Madrasil irukkum St.Thomas Mountum irundum malai dhaan. Aana neenga irandum onnungareengale annaathe!
  
  “uyara uyara parandhaalum oor kuruvi parundhaagaadhu” – indha pazhamozhi ungalukku marandhu pochchaa???
  
  
• From: Trisha (@ 203.197.61.57) on: Tue Oct 10 10:54:25 EDT 2000
  
  Actor Vivek says:
  "Ilayaraja Tamizh NAttin Pokisham; Rahman Indiavin VyAbAram. The BGM of Mudhal Mariyathai has yet to be bettered, as ARR himself acknowledged".
  
  Having made this provocative statement, in order to sound 'balanced', Vivek adds that Rahman is a hardworking guy and had broken the common belief that Raja is the ultimate and has made the extreme effort ('brahma prayatnam')to make people listen to his kind of new sound.
  I agree with him.
  For more info, here's the link:
  http://www.kumudam.com/kumudam/kweekly/km29.html
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Tue Oct 10 11:09:02 EDT 2000
  
  Chinna_thambi,
  
  Neenga sonna pazhamolikkum intha threadukkum ethavathu sambhandam irukkinnu ninaikkarainga?!!!
  
  Pazhamolinnu oru thani thread neenga arambicha pichukkuttu poogum
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: chinna_thambi (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Tue Oct 10 13:16:17 EDT 2000
  
  Trend:
  
  Trend
  
  Indha topic title enna? - IR or ARR. Adhukku "uyara uyara parandhaalum..." - endra pazhamozhiyaivida sariyaana analogy irukkamudiyumaa sollunga? :-).
  
  IR oru Imayam, ARR oru chinna malai - idhai naan mattum alladhu ingu ezhudhum rasigargal mattum sollavillai - thamizhagathilum ulla perum puLLigal neriya pEr oppukonda/oppukoLgira vishayam.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Oct 11 12:09:13 EDT 2000
  
  Chinna_thambi,
  
  IR imayamaka irundhar.Can you frankly tell me if he is giving any music nowadays befitting the imayam image?I agree "Bharathi" is very good.But what abt his other last 10 or 20 albums.
  
  Please dont try to pass his average work as something good.
  
  IR's recent songs ketkum podhu chinna kadugu alavu strength Kooda avaru musicla illadathu mathiri oru feeling.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Oct 11 17:35:56 EDT 2000
  
  Trend,
  You have put things in the right perspective. I have raised the same issue in "IR new albums" about Bharthy Album and have been asking to Hardcore IR fans to accept an average composition as an average coposition and not exaggerate it as something extraordinary.
  
  IR is a great composer, but after ARR came into TFM he has lost his vision/passion/enthusiasm that he had in the late 70's and 80's to come up with extraordinary compositions. In 80's whatever he composed was just great. He was flowing with great music spontaneously like a waterfall and now he is really struggling with it.
  
  His recent albums are just of average grade.
  
  
• From: krishna (@ 128.248.78.109) on: Thu Oct 12 00:59:52 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai
  
  i opine with you...but i would rather say its the fault of the directors as one of the reason....for example directors of the calibre of BR, MR or B'chander have faded....they were of the same age group and mind set as IR and they knew how to extract the best out of him....now even BR and BC are out of the scene and how come only IR is blamed? the directors he works with are kasthuriraja, kaja sheriff, mayil pandian and the likes.... what do they know about direction and theme music....imagine IR's position when somebody comes and tells the same old damn story using the "old wine in a new glass" logic, IR deep inside would just get totally uninspired and would regret working with these people...there is no freshness or novelty in their works and obviously he churns out average stuff....adding to his problems are today's youth unyielding to anything but ARR's digital beats....these days the vogue is to have bose speakers in the car, insert a disc of the ARR remix, race with the music as it bangs against the windows, who would want another muthu mani malai from CKounder or nadha vinodhangal from salangai oli? maybe some of us who had the youth in the 80s and early 90s, but today loud chorus, jazzy beats, tamizh yelled as tamil by clinton, febi and others, artificial voice modulations of singers, and i can go on and on....where does IR have the talent for all that....after all he produces genuine music, perfects thalaams and shruthi like none else, writes musical notes, wants inspiration from fans and directors alike (none of them are by his side unfortunately) and this old genius is still hoping against hope to start an academy or research institute in music (doesn't sell), composes symphony (none to be released, we fans keep chanting symphony! symphony! to deaf (y)ears), makes trips to the US in a silent and gentle way just in search of true music and music lovers, on the other hand there is this long haired youngster, composer with great compsure lured by fame and lands in the auditorium amongst laser lights and then switches on the tape recorder for everyone to enjoy (you being one of the victims), takes his own time to create (if that is what the fans want to call) music albums, in the name of fusion, there is cut copy and paste of different versions from different composers, in the name of patriotic music redesigns his favourite 'porale ponnu thaayi' tune to suit all international music lovers, calls all the singers of India to sing the national anthem with a western chord in the background to 'creating' a new album jan gan man, uses theme music of bombay in two other movies, in the name of BGM tunes repeats all the songs in the movie using different instruments, and ooops sorry! i have many more to come and if you want we can chat seperately one day....but this is what i felt as to what is exactly happening today, when just a hardcore fan of IR like me feels this why wouldn't IR and thus lose his inspiration? that is the problem today and not his music....he retains the same talent and may be can even do better, but the land is not fertile these days for the seed to germinate...sorry guys for such a big posting, just felt like pouring out words from my heart
  
  cheers
  
  krishna
  
  
• From: krishna (@ 128.248.78.109) on: Thu Oct 12 01:03:28 EDT 2000
  
  Dorai
  
  by the way,i have enjoyed reading your critisims and comments in several forums and have been a silent admirer of those
  
  keep it up
  
  krishna
  
  

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