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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Fri Jul 18 18:42:47 EDT 2003
  
  Jag, MusicIsLife
  
  Great points.
  
  Did I ever say that IR did not have any songs in his credit that would be appreciated by the NRI kids??
  
  Sure Anjali would appeal to them. But What I am saying is that ARR should not be crucified for being slanted to the west for his tunes. This is because his audience base is quite large among youth and he obviously has to go for a western slant since time has dictated musical styles for all of us!
  
  So All I am saying is that ARR should go on and compose more projects like Taal, Lagaan etc which will be more popular among the overseas Indian audience rather than traditional Indian audience!
  
  With Bombay Dreams more people (Indians) in the UK now know him and he shud take advantage of this by making some popular music in his trademark Style!
  
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Fri Jul 18 18:48:12 EDT 2003
  
  xml
  
  I dont know why you ventured into this thread!
  
  It is fanatical morons like you that make all IR fans look like terro-inducing lobbyists!
  
  If you want to say something be calm and say it nicely. Not like this where you continously bash ARR. Nobody in the world is going to stop listening to ARR just because you call him a copy cat and what not!
  
  ARR will be ARR regardles of stupid idiotic uncalled for statements thrown out by moronic troble-mongers like you
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Fri Jul 18 19:43:06 EDT 2003
  
  Thats what I want to say V. He is a copy cat. I can prove that.
  
  He will be copying the songs several years for a movie. By the time other MD's will copy very fast and put in their album.
  
  Then ARR will look other albums to copy. In that way he will do many years. See all the recent albums. He composed several years for sucha worst albums. The funny thing is he gave the tune for baba by telephone!!!.
  
  
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Fri Jul 18 19:52:32 EDT 2003
  
  So whats funny abt giving tunes for Baba by telephone?
  
  
  He was caught up in London and he had forewarned Rajini about that. But Rajini was conviced that Rahman can give tunes alone and the mastering will take place in the studio at madras by the assts.
  
  By the way the discussion went on in the phone. The tune was recorded in London sent to madras for vocal recording sent back to London for mixing and mastering!
  
  Karthik's i2fs site has all copied that are genuine and not some outlandish claims from fanatics like you. He has documented everything and thats what I call a genuine copy cliam.
  
  Now tell me where he copied. Dont give me 4-5 second bulllshit co-incidence and call that a copy! Check http://www.iespana.es/i2fs
  
  and by the way I just now heard IR's recycled tune "Kannai Thirandha" from veera which was recycled from "Inraikku" from Vaithehi Kathirunthal! The intro and also the starting verses are just pure recycle material!
  
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Fri Jul 18 20:12:08 EDT 2003
  
  Do you agree with this?.
  Please tell your view.
  
  Musical merits of IR : His music is from his own.He made Tamil film Industry as the best through his music. What else you need?. He made several films box office hit with unfamed artists and director.
  
  IR Demerits : He was concentrated only in south and least least bothered about the North.
  
  
  Musical merits of ARR : The one which IR left he filled. I mean he famed in north with western copy.
  
  Demerit : A western copy cat.One of the worst incapable MD composing several years for the worst albums udaya parasuram kadalvirus etc..
  
  He gave tunes by telephone for the movie baba!!!.
  
  He need a big banner,director for making hit albums.
  
  He made the TF industry down
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Fri Jul 18 20:15:53 EDT 2003
  
  It was proven till now no one could compose like IR during his ruling time and even now.
  
  But all the other MD's HJ,VS,YSR composing similar and better than ARR. What does it meat. ARR is a copy cat. Every one copies the same way ARR did and making hit. But the funny thing is he could not make any hit recently!!!!.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.11.98.63) on: Fri Jul 18 20:19:12 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  ARR should not wait for projects like Taal or Lagaan to come by. I don't know if he is of that mindset. Its not a big secret that MDs usually give their best to big banners, even people like KVM, MSV were of that mindset. But IR has proved that an MD has to make the best out of the situations he gets. Especially IR's authority in music allows him to dictate terms to the directors and also give great music beyond the directors' expectations. ARR should also do it and come up path breaking albums if he wants to prove his detractors wrong. Someone mentioned earlier that he did this with May Madham, En Swasa Katrae, but then shyed off from these small projects for fear of losing market. But I think he gained a lot more market when he did albums like those than what he is getting now for his big banner movies.
  
  No MD should ever mess up when given the chance to score for a big banner. If he does then it will take him many folds the effort to gain the ground lost eg,Baba and to some extent Boys though it is considered as a hit. ARR should also be careful in composing BGM of movies and should be really concerned about its impact on the movie. Given the high standards of BGM, of course by IR, in TFM movies, if the director finds that the MD is hardly concerned about the movie, he will think twice before selecting ARR for his next movie. One of the reasons IR is still composing for movies is this art of composing BGM and ARR should realize it before its too late. A good musician can compose songs given situations and express feelings through lyrics. A great musician can express feelings through just music.
  
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Fri Jul 18 20:29:16 EDT 2003
  
  He first proved the important of a MD in the history of the film industry. He showed him above any director,superstar,and big banner like AVM.
  
  Many mohan films, ramarajan films.
  
  With directors like P.Vasu,R.V,Udayakumar, rajkiran he made the movie to run by music.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.14) on: Fri Jul 18 22:45:35 EDT 2003
  
  hey mororn xml, read the heading carefully, "not for fanatics".... get the hell out of here....choot fetang......and also i'll tell u the statements of IR fans from 1992... see how ridiculous they seeem now..
  
  1. he will last only for 2-3 yrs.(ARR is in industry for 11 yrs.)
  2. he cannot become famous ( has won 3 national awards which even IR hasn't done, and has ruled north with conviction)
  3. he cannot give tamil folk( KC and karuthamma)
  4. he copies from west( not proven yet... 4-5 seconds coincidence is not copying)
  5. he cannot give carnatic music( ennavale, kannamoochi yenada)
  6. only computer gives music and not ARR( i dunt want to answer to such a stupid statement.. xcept that tunes cannot be auto-generated)
  now tell me xml, ARR has been proving u,IR-fans,IR wrong for the past 11 years.... still u want to call that genius a waste....
  
  sorry V but i had to answer....
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.160) on: Sat Jul 19 00:10:30 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy and all other ARR fans,
  Before you go ahead into more of this discussion you should take a look at our predecessors initial discussions (which are done at much more rational) in this matter to get a first hand view of what went on:
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/7902.20354.19:54:25.html
  
  and if you feel that we should still continue this discussion it's your choice. Anyway, I will be content in reading older threads.
  
  And Maddy grow up. IR has won 3 national awards.(which are anyway big jokes, how can they ignore classics like Raaja Parvai, Mouna Ragam, Nizhalgal and Hey Ram! I can tell you ten more in Telugu). Good music << Great Music.
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: anbananth (@ 219.95.56.187) on: Sat Jul 19 01:30:40 EDT 2003
  
  who can do this?????who can win this number of awards?IR is the most useless MD in tamil cinema 4 sure!without ar rahman no tamil songs will be respected all of the world?can any of the music director compose songs like arr?all the songs are different not like the stupid IR!
  Civilian Awards
  
  Padmashri (Jan 2000) title awarded by Indian Government
  Awadh Sammaan (May 2001) awarded by Uttar Pradesh government (Lucknow)
  Al-Ameen Education Society Community Award (2001)
  
  
  
  National Awards
  
  Roja (1993)
  Minsara Kanavu (1998)
  Lagaan (2002)
  
  
  
  Filmfare Awards
  
  
  [Best Music Award & South Filmfare Awards (Tamil) unless indicated otherwise.]
  
  Roja (1993)
  Gentleman (1994)
  R D Burman Award for Best new musical talent (for Roja, Hindi; 1995)
  Kadhalan (1995)
  Rangeela (Hindi; 1996)
  Bombay (1996)
  Kadhal Desam (1997)
  Minsara Kanavu (1998)
  Dil Se.. (Hindi; 1999)
  Jeans (1999)
  Taal (Hindi; 2000)
  Mudhalvan (2000)
  Alai Payuthey (2001)
  Lagaan (Hindi; 2002)
  Background Score Technical Award The Legend of Bhagat Singh (Hindi; 2003)
  Saathiya (Hindi; 2003)
  
  
  
  Screen-Videocon Awards
  
  Kadhal Desam (South - Tamil; 1997)
  Minsara Kanavu (South - Tamil; 1998)
  Vande Mataram (Non-film; 1998)
  Taal (Hindi; 2000)
  
  
  
  Dinakaran Cine Awards
  
  Minsara Kanavu (1998)
  Jeans (1999)
  Mudalvan, Kadhalar Dhinam (2000)
  
  
  
  Tamil Nadu State Award
  
  Roja (1993)
  Gentleman (1994)
  Kadhalan (1995)
  Bombay (1996)
  Minsara Kanavu (1998)
  Sangamam (2000)
  
  
  
  Cinema Express Award
  
  Roja (1993)
  Gentleman (1994)
  Kadhalan (1995)
  Kadhal Desam (1997)
  Jeans (1999)
  
  
  
  Kalasaagar Award
  
  Roja (1993)
  Gentleman (1994)
  Kadhalan (1995)
  Bombay (1996)
  
  
  
  FilmFans' Award
  
  Roja (1993)
  Gentleman (1994)
  Kadhalan (1995)
  Bombay (1996)
  
  
  
  CineGoers' Award
  
  Roja (1993)
  Gentleman (1994)
  Kadhalan (1995)
  Bombay (1996)
  
  
  
  Zee Awards
  
  Zee Sangeet Awards (1999) Dil Se..
  Zee Cine Awards (2000) Taal
  Zee Gold Bollywood International Awards (2000) Taal
  Zee Fairglow Awards (2002) Best Music Lagaan
  Zee Gold Bollywood Awards (2002) Lagaan
  Zee Cine Awards (2003) Best Music Saathiya.
  Zee Gold Bollywood Awards (2003) Best Music Saathiya
  
  
  
  International Indian Film Awards (IIFA)
  
  Taal (2000) London
  Lagaan (2002) Malaysia
  Saathiya (2003) Johannesburg (Music, Background score)
  
  
  
  Miscellaneous
  
  R D Burman Award at the SuMu Music Awards (1993)
  Madras Telugu Academy Puraskar (1992 to 1994)
  Bommai Nagi Reddy Award (1995/96)
  Lux-Kumudam Award for Kadhalan (1995)
  Mauritius National Award (1995; for contribution to music)
  Malaysian Award (1996; for contribution to music)
  Sanskriti Award from Delhi based Sanskriti foundation (1994)
  Kalaimamani Award from Tamil Nadu Government (1995)
  Thangapillai Award
  Rajiv Gandhi Award
  3rd Channel [V] Awards - Coca Cola Viewer's Choice Award 1998
  The Channel [V]-IMI Award for Best Producer for Vandemataram 1998
  "Gana Kaladhar" by Bharat Kalachar
  Fanta Award in 1999
  MTV-VMA Award for Dil Se Re song from Dil Se.. 1999
  Stardust Cine Honours Taal (2000)
  Filmgoers's Award Taal (2000)
  First Bollywood Music Awards (Best Music Director and Best Song) Taal (2000)
  V Shantaram Award: Taal (2001)
  Amir Khusro Sangeet Nawaz Award (2002)
  MTV Asia Music Awards : Most Popular Artiste India (2003)
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.201) on: Sat Jul 19 01:35:44 EDT 2003
  
  ambanath ,
  
  It is good to see that ARR has got so many awards !!!!
  But how many great musicians all around the world ( except for webber) have apprciated his music or his music knowledge ????
  
  Indian awards are based on popularity alone and not by musical depth ( they need not be is another !!!)...You cannot compare ARR and IR by awards ..You have to compare how the two musicians have handled WCM and Karnatic Music ,Raagas etc
  
  

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