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dhooL.com

Topic started by bb (@ 24.4.254.104) on Tue Feb 20 03:21:22 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi! We've made a major addition to newtfmpage, and that is a big song bank. Dhool features thousands of songs for your listening pleasure. This site is a part of the newtfmpage.com - swara.com group. Together with newtfmpage, we wish to make this the best place to listen to tamil film songs online and know about tamil film music. Our collection includes old, new, famous, rare and unheard of songs. We are still fine tuning and fixing the database errors, so please bear with us. We value your feedback, and this will help us build the site better. Please post your comments below or mail to comments@newtfmpage.com.
This work was done by us (bb and RR) with MS and swara.com ravi.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Tue Sep 23 19:16:55 EDT 2003
  
  vijay: Thanks for the link. I have a number of books on western music at home including the Oxford Dictionary of Music. It also says that diction in singing refers to enunciation. If you see my post Naaz appears first. Hope he reads it and browses the website of some music college or conservatory. Next time I will address only Naaz, if that is what you would like.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 19:19:51 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz, the word diction has been used in the context of singing, thats all there is to it. If there can be "diction for singers" then there is nothing wrong in saying that "Chithra possesses good diction" .Simple. Its not rocket science. But I guess I can only debate so much with a person who speaks with a tone which conveys that the whole world is wrong and he is right, even after he is proved otherwise. I can continue to give more examples of diction being used in the context of rock singers like Billy Joel etc. but it would be a waste of time. When your ego has simmered down considerably you can do some google search yourself and find out the "truth". Although judging from how you have ignored the proof given by us so far from online dictionaries I guess its not going to change your stance much.
  
  
  Bye.
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 23 20:04:17 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay -
  
  Not so fast :-)
  
  Diction (vocabulary/words) is a component of written/spoken Language (any). Pronunciation/Enunciation, on the other hand, is what the singer/speaker does with the "diction" (words). Say that the singer has "superb P or E" and I'll say we're on the same team - wholeheartedly (cf. raj's "diction in singing refers to "enunciation" (of the words in that particular language.)
  In summation: Language always and already possesses "diction." (a body of words) If "diction" is used in the context of "singing" then it refers exclusively to the "words" in a song (lyrics - that's it.) Hence, the singer can be commended for the "pronunciation" of the "diction" (which is enunciation) of a certain language/song - but not for his/her "diction" - as that belongs to the author and his/her choice of words to express a particular emotion/sentiment/whatever - in any chosen language.
  
  Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?
  And what's egotistical about pointing this common misuse?
  And when did I say the whole world was wrong? I merely said that the usage (diction as terminology) is erroneous.
  
  Raj -
  
  I did not take any offense to your post. In fact, it had a line that I found to go to the heart of this discussion - which is about usage and terminology. Thanks for that definition from ODOM.
  
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 192.127.94.7) on: Tue Sep 23 20:48:21 EDT 2003
  
  naazu, The majority is always right is a good argument because if the majority feels Chitra's diction is superb then that's what counts. And if the majority feels that 'saying chitra's diction is superb ' is right english then that too counts. appaala, nee innaaththukku inga koovikkinu keera?
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 192.127.94.7) on: Tue Sep 23 20:52:57 EDT 2003
  
  diction cannot belong to the writer because as a mere word it has no pronounciation. Diction comes into play only when a word is pronounced. Diction in fact means how a word is pronounced. Where it is stressed and where it is lengthened etc. 'eppdi irukku udambu' can be written only one way but can be pronounced three different ways. That is where the diction comes into play. So it is clearly in the pronouncer's arena. (we have seen naaz's ego and honesty. Now let us see his tenacity!!)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 20:53:11 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz, you can repeat the same thing again and again, it doesnt change anything unless you are willing to show us some proof that our usage of diction is wrong. So far, all definitions of diction shown prove our usage to be very valid.
  I see that you are ignoring this:
  
  vocal expression : ENUNCIATION b : pronunciation and enunciation of words in singing
  
  So Diction is equivalent to vocal expression.Its like saying "Chithra has good vocal expression". Or its like saying "Chithra displays good pronunciation of words". It doesnt have to do ONLY with the language as you keep repeating.There could be several meanings/usages for a word in case you didnt know that.
  
  And if you still think you are right and they are wrong you can always write to Webster-Merriam and let them know they are wrong.As a professional writer, I am sure you would be concerned about disagreeing with the rest of the planet on a simple word usage :-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 20:57:15 EDT 2003
  
  Ranga, dont sweat it out any further:-). Naaz already made up his mind when he claimed that bb "lied" and "erred".For someone claiming to be interested in having an "intellectual discussion" on linguistics he sure started off on the right foot :-))
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 192.127.94.7) on: Tue Sep 23 21:12:03 EDT 2003
  
  Hey naaz,
  C&P
  And what's egotistical about pointing this common misuse
  I have to correct one more of your wrong english. We were talking about your ego. So you should be replying about your egoistical nature. egotistical means one talking about himself with a lot of usage of the word 'I'. We do not charge you of any egotism. only mere egoism. (We can now fight on egoism and egotism!!)
  
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 192.127.94.7) on: Tue Sep 23 21:17:58 EDT 2003
  
  Has anyone figured out what the third way of pronouncing 'eppdi irukku udambu'? Please think about it and let me know when you figured it.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 23 21:28:10 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay -
  
  "vocal expression : ENUNCIATION b : pronunciation and enunciation of ---words--- in singing"
  
  Crucial letters: "words" (lyrics in a song)
  And where do they come from? Language.
  Who chooses/writes them? Poet/Lyricist/Author.
  Does the singer choose the words? S/he only enunciates. Hence the qualification as "ENUNCIATION."
  
  What your definitions have shown so far (which you seem to have consistently missed) is that they make a distinction between "diction" and "enunciation" - (cf. intro to Handbook of Diction (words) for singers.)
  
  But your latter qualification is bull's eye: "Chithra displays good pronunciation of words/diction." Yes! (if you think that to be true.)
  As opposed to "Chithra possesses good diction." (Which she might, on her own, when she writes a letter or gives a speech written in "her choice" of "words" from a language.) As proof I will point to the ODOM definition provided by Raj. It makes a categorical distinction. And that's what I have been saying all along.
  Here's a corollary: "So and So possesses superb ragas." Is that possible?
  Now: "So and so possesses superb prayoga of ragas" Isn't that possible?
  
  Diction and Pronunciation are not interchangeable, unfortunately (the former is a component of language (even if unspoken, it still exists,) the latter is the "articulation" of that part of the language.) But you're in good company - RangA (appreciate your terms of endearment, BTW) is sure that diction means how words are pronounced.
  Are there more where these linguistic leaps (and freaks) of faith come from? I'm sure there must be.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 135.214.42.162) on: Tue Sep 23 22:14:14 EDT 2003
  
  bb, please don't mention SJ or KSC as the female singer. Mention the singer as VJ. 'Amazing what people will tolerate and celebrate';-)
  
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 135.214.42.162) on: Tue Sep 23 22:25:01 EDT 2003
  
  What an IRony!:-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 23:03:54 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz, you are just twisting what Raj said. Raj never said that the words have to be Chithra's own anywhere. Thats just a figment of your imagination. However Raj did say:
  ". At the end of one performance, the teacher complimented him on his diction"
  
  In other words the teacher said that his diction was good, which is the same way bb has used it.
  He said "Chithra's diction is good". There is nothing wrong in it.
  
  diction doesnt merely mean "words" of course, it refers to the enunciation/pronunciation of the words and can be used synonymously.That the words have to be Chithra's OWN is not stated anywhere, its just needless extrapolation on your part.The words might be the author's but the pronunciation or enunciation or the diction is the singer's.
  
  I understand that you lack proof for validating your assumptions, but that doesnt mean you have to invent one :-)
  
  "Diction and Pronunciation are not interchangeable"
  I am sorry but the dictionary says otherwise.
  
  "Are there more where these linguistic leaps (and freaks) of faith come from?
  "
  
  I dont know, but I am sure you must know more about it:-)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 67.127.125.159) on: Tue Sep 23 23:30:23 EDT 2003
  
  bb,
  machi, oru paravai muniammaa paattai adutha paattaa eduthu udu. muniammaa pronunciation pathi yaaraavathu paesinaa keesiduvaen.
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 203.195.201.74) on: Wed Sep 24 00:45:37 EDT 2003
  
  This is reg., unnaal mudiyum thambi lyrics,
  
  that bilahari song sung by KJY (Nee ondRuthaanaa) is by Pulamaip piththan - I remember seeing it in Sahana couple of months back !
  
  So, two more pending ...
  
  'Maanuda Sevai Dhrogamaa'
  'AkkamPakkam paaradaa, chinna raasaa' - My guess is pulamaip piththan and vaalee for these two songs ... can anybody confirm ? :-D
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 66.125.203.47) on: Wed Sep 24 00:48:37 EDT 2003
  
  Hey naaz ,
  I understand your difficulty. You had blabbered something. And we instigated your ego. Now you cannot go back on your words. So you blabber more. Unless you are a true gentleman you cannot accept defeat. ozinji pO mavanE!! Go on about misinterpreting other things ridiculously.
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 66.125.203.47) on: Wed Sep 24 00:54:38 EDT 2003
  
  naaz, explain what is diction? If it is not interchangeable with pronunciation, it is not interchangeable with 'words' either. Or is it? (By your own grammar school?) In the sentence 'naazamaa pORiyaa?' what is diction?
  
  

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