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the psychology behind "raja & rehman comparison" threads

Topic started by velramanan (@ 202.88.154.169) on Mon Oct 22 06:25:41 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am sick of finding seemingly endless comparisons between raja & rehman. For once, let us stop talking about comparing raja & rehman. Instead i would like to discuss the real psychology behind "what prompts people to resort to such comparisons. What sort of personalities relish such fights. What might be the internal motives of such comparisons? Are there any sincere people involved in such threads or is it mere cheap ego trips?". This has always been an intriguing riddle to me. Help please....(for heaven's sake please do not start another sickening fight here too.) :-)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: anonymous (@ 192.169.41.41) on: Sat Oct 27 06:43:55 EDT 2001
  
  Yaaro,
  
  I fully agree with you. It is the hype created in those roadside casette shops and tea shops that made people buy Ilaiyaraja's songs. I very well remember the song 'Raja Rajadhiraja' from Agni Natchatiram - I heard it in West Mambalam. 'Vanithamani' from Vikram was played by cousin when I once visited Madras (I used to stay in Andhra then). All these small incidents - not to speak of musical magic of IR - that made us the greatest fans. No amount of ARRs and HJs can replace this respect for him
  
  
• From: velramanan (@ 202.56.193.239) on: Sat Oct 27 06:56:30 EDT 2001
  
  paardhu, anonymous and yaaro....seems you are shooting off the topic and are touching on the very area that we are trying to analyse to the extent possible. The topical focus is on "why people resort to such comparisons at all, and why is raja vs rehman comparisons so intense & heated"...the topic is not another "raja-rehman" comparison...instead it is "the psyche behind such comparisons"...guess this makes it clear.
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Sat Oct 27 07:22:50 EDT 2001
  
  velramanan!
  i think all u guys have written everything about the psychology of comparing raja with rahman...actually there is not much to say anymore...sorry...
  but to be frank: i've never compared these 2 mds...i didn't want to, cause first of all, i don't know much about illayaraja...all i have heard from him is his malayalam albums in the nineties (am a malayalee)...and i found them quite impressive i must say...and in tamil i think i know him from those great kamal movies 'abhoorva sahotharangal' and 'nayagan' (great movie, i love the 'mafia-topic', since i have dealt myself a lot with it, at school and things like that, have written a small book with this topic, and 'the godfather' is one of my all time favourites), and as i wrote in another thread that song 'thenpandi cheemayile' is one of my all time favourites...
  but apart from this, i don't have much experience with this legend. and i myself started listening to tamil songs only after ARR came, that i must admit...it was not even really roja which made me curious about him, actually it started with 'bombay' and 'kadhalaan', i know i had heard 'chinna chinna assai' from roja, but then i had lost contact to tamil music, cause i'm living here in vienna, austria, europe, then as i came for holiday in 1994 i heard bombay and kadhalan, and then some years later i realised that ARR is the only MD whose albums i always will like...i mean, if he releases something i can be sure: i will like it...and this security i have with no other md (perhaps on an international level with micheal jackson, but otherwise no!)...and this is what made me a fan of ARR...
  and there is also a simple reason why i'm not trying to listen to illayarajas old master pieces...especially now when thru internet it is easier than ever to come to his music... the reason is just: my need for music is already kind of covered by rahman.... i mean it's just like, i don't 'need' illayaraja's music, and perhaps when i would now try to concentrate more on raja and start listening to all his old master pieces that would just become too much for me i guess...cause too much music can't be good...cause then i may lose track of things...i couldn't really say what is good, what is not so good...
  
  u know, i have no problems if one defends 'his' md, what i don't like is when one tries to offend another md, who is actually a widely respected person at least on the musical field. okay, but then one can only 'defend' if another one 'offends'. so better would be if me for example praise ARR and someone else like friend yaaro praises illayaraja. we know both are good and we praise both. and about other mds like deva or anu malik (in the hindi field) it's a difficult thing...cause there is nothing wrong about critizing...and these 2 mds for example we HAVE to critize when they do really silly crap things like they use to do...
  but still, if they do something really good, then, without any prejudies, we should acknowledge it (like i remember deva did music for a malayalam movie called 'the prince' with mohanal, in 1997, and there was one semi-classical song in it, rendered wonderfully by chitra...that was for example a great song by deva)....and i appreciate anu malik's trying of experimenting in 'aks' (if it was good or not, is another question)...
  well, i think i'm fading away a bit...
  anyway, i think i didn't give any answer to the question why people are comparing raja and rahman, but my 'message' is: just don't do it!
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Sat Oct 27 09:55:29 EDT 2001
  
  Like Raycas says maybe we have exhausted all viewpoints to this topic. (Maybe not)
  But if anyone is very seriously interested to pursue this topic in greater detail, here's a suggestion. Do some research on Sport Fans Psychology. This is a topic that is given quite some coverage by psychology studies.
  I feel that part of the reason people are comparing is because there is this sense of competition. And maybe a feeling of exasperation that IR who once used to top the charts seems to be falling behind amongst the younger generations (well expressed by yaaro and anonymous). So some IR fans tend to exhibit a feeling of aggression, similar to those expressed by sports fans. And so with ARR fans who also have the need to express tat ARR is the best and counter any accusations from IR fans on his fallibilities, exhibiting the same aggression.
  The term for sports fans who are very intense in their loyalty is 'high identifying fans'. These are the ones who are also more likely to commit spectator violence during competitions. Maybe the ARR/IR fans who are very intense in participating in these comparison threads are behaving in a mode similar to high idenitifying fans.
  As for wat velramanan says earlier about how he himself has lost his cool in such threads, the process he has undergone is similar to 'deindividuation' which sports fans undergo before submitting to violent behaviour uncharacteristic of themselves, though of course to a much lesser and peaceful extent, thank goodness.
  The internet is littered wit lots of websites in sports fan psychology, and is an interesting read. Maybe someone can do more indepth research and find the similarities between these ARR/IR comparison thread psychology and sports fan psychology.
  For those of you unaware of this, be careful. Consumer psychology (including sports/music/stars) is well documented are a usual ploy used by marketing people to get people to buy more. Though we may be busy in our combat about who is superior, the marketers of their products (even if they are different companies) will be delirious to see such events taking place.
  
  
• From: velramanan (@ 202.56.194.151) on: Sat Oct 27 12:51:56 EDT 2001
  
  dear raycas....
  
  ..//"u know, i have no problems if one defends 'his' md, what i don't like is when one tries to offend another md"//..
  
  that was an excellent statement..wish everyone kept that in mind when confronted with "yet another raja-rehman comparison crap thread"...:-)...very well said....
  
  
• From: velramanan (@ 202.56.194.151) on: Sat Oct 27 12:56:07 EDT 2001
  
  that correlation that "whynot" has mentioned ...between music & sports...and the term he used - "individuation"...guess these need some more pondering...
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ ) on: Mon Feb 4 10:58:39 EST 2002
  
  Dear Velramanan,
  of late two more reasons for such comparison behaviour seem apparent to me:
  
  1) Sadistic sense of humour.
  raycas said this in another thread, "What's wrong with ARR haters". Some people just indulge in it for the pleasure of playing with words, making puns.
  
  2) Pure sadism.
  Some people just enjoy agitating and causing distress to others.
  
  3) Clinical insanity
  This is something I'd have dismissed earlier. But of late, watching the kind of threads cropping up by the minute in this forum, I don't think this is as far-fetched as it may seem. I think some genuinely crazy people are being pampered with internet access to keep their loony minds busy.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Mon Feb 4 10:59:17 EST 2002
  
  Oops, that three more reasons
  
  
• From: whinenot (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Mon Feb 4 13:17:43 EST 2002
  
  Whynot
  Don't you qualify on all these 3 counts, esp. the last one? Or else, why would you revive a long and buried thread?
  
  
• From: Kiran (@ 202.9.67.104) on: Mon Feb 4 22:48:41 EST 2002
  
  AR's success and domination in TFM had hurt all the IR fan's EGOS , that makes them talk against AR unnecessarily ...They are so blind that they are unable to realize that they themselves are bringing down IRs name by talking foolishly and defending IR unnecessarily !!Even IR himeself talks such way in some speeches ....But AR is very matured ,cool and intelligent...Even he knows that IR is like a GOD in music ....but never openly admits or exposes his real thinking ...People should behave like AR !!
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Feb 4 23:29:58 EST 2002
  
  kiran...can u specific on what exactly u intended to tell with that posting?
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Feb 4 23:31:22 EST 2002
  
  kiran...can u be specific on what exactly u intended to tell with that posting?
  
  
• From: Kiran (@ 202.9.67.104) on: Tue Feb 5 00:02:06 EST 2002
  
  Its not 'what i intend to say '...i just analysed whats happening ...in an unbiased way !! TRUTH IS...
  1)IR is music genius ...but not successful today like AR
  
  2)AR is extremely successful(money n fame) , but not as genius as IR
  
  3)But since success is visible acheivment ,some complexes are making IR's fans disturbed even IR himself....
  
  4)But if one is wise he needn't keep shouting about the truth ,he can just even enjoy all the other things .
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Feb 5 00:54:00 EST 2002
  
  Comparisons can be helpful in also accentuating similarities.
  But the IR-ARR comparison always degenerate into yelps and yowls of sigaramthis and supersigaramthat.
  It is very easy to compare when the objective is not to appreciate commonalities but instead, use one for the sole purpose of bringing down the other. Too easy. And also unenlightening.
  Hence, both, IR and ARR fans (of the no.1 card-carrying kind) reflect poorly on the two fine musicians. It is such fans who have "esteem" issues - and not the MDs they support/denounce!
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Tue Feb 5 03:34:12 EST 2002
  
  "IT IS FANS WHO HAVE LOW ESTEEM" that resort to such things...brilliantly said NAAZ....(good example is a lovely person called NO JALRA). Oh dear, he is so pathetic :-)
  
  

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