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Is Vairamuthu better than Kannadaasan?

Topic started by Prabhar (@ ppp45-216.lvsb.vsnl.net.in) on Thu Jul 2 09:40:00 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Yes......The greatest joke of the year!
Courtesy: Sivaji Ganesan
Reference: Kungumam weekly.
My opeinon: KD malai yentral VM madu....

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rasigan (@ 204.154.71.125) on: Thu Jan 10 13:48:43 EST 2002
  
  I agree with Udhaya.. Vaali for instance has given great songs. It is common knowledge that MGR found it so appealing that he used it fr his election campaigns. And he doesn't shy telling public that he writes all types of songs and he doesn't call them illakiya tamil.
  
  he doesn't wear a MASK
  
  
• From: Shanmugam (@ 63.101.96.27) on: Thu Jan 10 14:31:27 EST 2002
  
  eden,
  
  I stand corrected - it was written by ML and not VM. Thanks:-)
  
  rasigan,
  
  Please send me clips of some hit songs of VM which don't have any music,but just with the tune has become a hit.
  
  How about 'rAsAthi' ("Thiruda^2")?
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Thu Jan 10 14:39:40 EST 2002
  
  rasigan,
  
  you answer for my SMG's posting has no relevance to
  
  //"His 81 against SL 1986 was of 72 deliveries with full of crappy shots.. he cam in at 4 down and played all the shots that allegedlly are against his style. "//
  
  //"Gavasker has even reverse swept in the Masters cup held sometime in 1993-94. "//
  
  these were instances to quote SMG has played innings with unorthodox "crappy" shots... I made no mention of attacking play or the distinction between attacking play and "crappy" play. I dont know why you brought that up!
  
  The topic of this thread is " Is VM better than KM". I interpret it as who is the better lyricist. If you interpret it as who is the "unamaiyana ilakiyavathi" then I am sorry TFM is no longer qualified to be the place where tamil ilakiyam can be measured and compared.
  
  Your refernce to "veedu varai uravu" and "vantha naal muthal" esp. "vantha naal muthal" is the best song KD has ever written ... comparing that to VM's thappanguthu is unfair and biased. b.t.w plz dont discredit the tune to promote the lyricist...
  
  Reading the song on the film is a hypothesis if you like it or not. That just shows KD did a good job. That doesnt mean the song wud be a hit if the music was crappy!
  
  dhappanguthu is a different field/ arena.. it caters to specific audience. Trying to impose Tamil quality in such songs and measuring a person work in that field against tamil ilakiyam is impractical. Its Apples and Oranges..
  
  No Sir! I still believe KD is good and excellent. But to say dismissively that V cant measure upto KD is naive.
  
  I have to re-use the "ariyamai" quote you have carelessly misused b4.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 204.154.71.125) on: Thu Jan 10 14:54:36 EST 2002
  
  VM Can definitely try to measure up to KD as u have mentioned, if he stops dappanguthu, illegal tamil words , constant usage of english words..
  
  Nalla Kavi Nalla Kavi yaga irukka vendum. Irunda Velai Sorukkaga why stoop down ???
  
  About the points i mentioned on attacking play is wrt Gavaskar's likin Srikkanth's batting.
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 204.154.71.125) on: Thu Jan 10 15:04:51 EST 2002
  
  eden,
  rasathi.. song..
  
  Starting from the first word to 'Ennudhulla', 'pona pulla', 'usuru', 'ravodu', 'vadi pulla'...
  
  idhu tamil dhana ???
  
  the song of course has VM's favourite 'Kandangi' and "Karisakadu'
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Thu Jan 10 15:29:04 EST 2002
  
  nalai pinna karapampoochi thaan orey sapadu... vera ethuvum illai endraal. karapampoochiyai sapidavum thayaaraga iruka vendum.
  
  ego status etc are intangible artificial man made theories. Survival is the only real thing.
  
  KD, drunk and died, VM is alive and making money! there is a difference!
  
  //"Irunda Velai Sorukkaga why stoop down "//
  
  itha intha ulagathila...pannathavanga yaarume kedaiyathu.. everyone does it to a reasonable extent!
  
  
  first law of man kind!
  
  If you want a song with amazing tamizh lyrics u neednt go farther than "narumugaiye...." to me that 100/100.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.254) on: Thu Jan 10 15:37:34 EST 2002
  
  rasigan,
  Digression:
  I think you are attracted to strict(or idealistic and tight) definition of "Virtue of artist",IMO.
  
  
• From: unmaivilambi (@ 63.75.49.120) on: Thu Jan 10 15:43:05 EST 2002
  
  SMG was a good batsmen in his times like Boycott,Gooch,Greenidge. He was never considered the best as opposed to Viv Richards or Sachin Tendulkar. These guys played unorthodox shots to keep floating and as part of innovation. This is same thing VM is doing.
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 204.154.71.125) on: Thu Jan 10 15:54:55 EST 2002
  
  Yes , Narumugaiye is truly a wonderful love song. Nobody can deny that .
  
  It is difficult to accept continuously 'rasathi, rosa poo, uchi mondhu, enna pulla' . Once in a while, its fine ,but shudn't be the order of the day.
  
  The fight here is if it were some guy who can write only some dappangutu lyrics let him stick to writing such stuff. But VM is of a different calibre, he can write real quality songs.. why does he resort to cheap lyrics, thereby he has lowered himself before thousands of people..
  
  Adhukkelem oru 'Gnanam' venum venum doi
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Thu Jan 10 15:55:31 EST 2002
  
  unmaivilambi... u couldnt be more correct! thats the correct analogy.
  
  If You hadnt said it I would have...
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 204.154.71.125) on: Thu Jan 10 16:04:24 EST 2002
  
  Somehow i wish that VM reads these lyrics ..
  
  paarkkath therindhaal paadhai theriyum
  paarththu nadandhaal payanam thodarum
  payanam thodarndhaal kadhavu thirakkum
  kadhavu thirandhaal kaatchi kidaikkum
  kaatchi kidaiththaal kavalai theerum
  kavalai theerndhaal vaazhalaam
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Thu Jan 10 18:00:55 EST 2002
  
  VM is actually following it to the word..
  
  VM vazha nenaikiraar athaan vazhkiraar. antha vazhkai pathai thaan neengal sollugindra dhappankuthu etc...
  
  
• From: ash (@ 12.5.196.254) on: Thu Jan 10 18:32:23 EST 2002
  
  Narumugiye is full of stolen phrases.
  Eg: Atrtraith thingal annilavil
  Netrith tharala neervadiya
  is from pattinathar.
  Especially the 2nd stanza is fully stolen from different works (right from Puranaanooru to Naayanmars)
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Thu Jan 10 19:18:49 EST 2002
  
  ash,
  
  The work that you are currently doing is possible because of the knowledge you gained from X std XII std and College Text books.
  
  So can I say that your knowledge is copied and that you are a fraud and all the work you are doing is not original....
  
  what do you expect VM invent a new language..?
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.225) on: Thu Jan 10 22:22:08 EST 2002
  
  ngaayum yaaum yaarahiyaro
  endthaium nundthaium emuraik kellir
  ..........
  chempulam cherndtha neerthulli pol
  anpudai nenjcham thaam kalandthanave
  from "Kurundthohai"
  
  paandi naadanaik kanda en udal pasalai kondathenna - thirukural
  
  "Atraith thingkal annilavil" - u know how Kannadasan used the same sentence in his song? - "Anroru Naal Ithey Nilavil". Still if anyone is interested in comparing please proceed.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam (@ 63.101.96.27) on: Fri Jan 11 00:31:14 EST 2002
  
  rasigan,
  
  You wanted a song written by VM which was a hit without any music and just with the tune and lyrics - 'rAsAthi' is a good example.
  
  If you want a song written by VM with only thamizh words, how about 'pachai niramE', 'kaNNA mUchi EnadA'?
  
  Regarding 'narumugayE', I won't agree with VM using the exact words from kurundthogai. He need not invent another language but he has borrowed (I wouldn't use the word stolen) heavily from kurundthogai and other old thamizh literature.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam (@ 63.101.96.27) on: Fri Jan 11 00:39:48 EST 2002
  
  ok 'pachai niramE' has the word rOjA which is not a thooya thamizh word as it requires a sanskrit extension - other than that it is ok.
  
  Also, regarding 'narumugayE', I think VM intentionally borrowed (that is why you cannot say he has stolen - VM would have known very well that many others will realize the source of the lyrics) those lyrics from old thamizh literature and has mixed them cleverly in the song. It is a great song.
  
  
• From: ash (@ 12.5.196.254) on: Fri Jan 11 17:10:17 EST 2002
  
  Bharath,
  Yes I do agree it is because of my knowledge gained in school and college that I do my work here. But the work of VM has something to do with creativity and originality.
  If any poet starts copying the songs (I mean verbatim) from his predecessors, I would not consider him to be creative and original. This song especially coined to resemble a typical "literary work" could have words from the real literary world, but not using all of an entire line. (Even "athikkai" song by KD has some influence from a pattinathar song). But not anything like this.
  And Rhagavan thanks for the info about those songs.
  
  
• From: Maharaj (@ ) on: Wed Jan 22 07:01:25 EST 2003
  
  pls. don't compare VM with KD. VM is the living Legend. yes, of course, KD is a good lyricist. but, not to the std of VM. u r complaining VM used english words, tappanguttu,etc. yes ofcourse, he did. but, also he did several great songs far better than KD. even KD did "Jahn beta jaggu", "jumbara jumbara..." type of songs in olden movies. those days, people use less english. so, he used less. but, the film music trend has changed now. so, vairamuthu has to cope up with the current competitions. still, he is showing his great.
  
  Most/All of KannaDasan's lyrics contains very simple tamil words, but not as a talented poet.
  
  If KD writes,
  "kaase dhaan kadavulada...",
  
  then Vairamuthu wrote,
  
  "sadjamamenbadhum dhaivadhamenbadhum panja parambaraikkappurandhaan"
  
  see how great is his tamil talent and it is far better than KD. KD is nothing when compared with VM, in terms of Tamil.
  
  
• From: x (@ 209.47.143.226) on: Wed Jan 22 13:04:00 EST 2003
  
  Maharaj,
  That's the whole point. KD used simple words in film songs and that's what made him the greatest of all. His simple words conveyed a lot of meaning. you understand? Film music was/is for common people. First of all people must understand the lyrics in order to appreciate the meaning. sadjamamenbadhum-m, dhaivadhamenbadhum - m ethanai perukku theriyu? hmm? I don't think you have listened to many kannadhasan's songs.
  First listen to them before you start comparing. Other than film songs, read 'kannadhasan kavithaigal' - kavithai thoguppu - that will tell you what a great poet he was. okay?. FYI, even vairamuthu accepted that KD is the greatest.
  
  
• From: multinamatheyan (@ 198.73.152.100) on: Wed Jan 22 16:50:35 EST 2003
  
  "Film music was/is for common people. First of all people must understand the lyrics in order to appreciate the meaning"
  
  Well said x. That is the exact reason why VM uses English words here and there - so that the 'common people' who speak 'Tanglish' can understand.
  
  neenga athayum vendagareenga ithayum vendagareenga avar paavam enathann seivar.
  
  "I don't think you have listened to many kannadhasan's songs"
  
  and I don't think you have listened to many VM songs with an open mind.
  
  

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