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How much effort do Tamil MD's put into scoring Background music?

Topic started by Theepan (@ 209.197.169.47) on Thu May 8 11:45:25 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Since all the effort is put on developing songs... there is less effort by MDs in Background Music,,, many mds would agree with me..

If we demand better BGM; they would deliver;;;

Compared to Hollywood; tamil films don't come even close to the scores created by hollywood composers...

so, if the films in tamil are to sound cinematic and dramatic to our years; we need to demand better BGM.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vanavil (@ 61.1.200.184) on: Wed May 28 02:49:33 EDT 2003
  
  Saw Grahan in sony max. Excellent BGM by KR. Esp. the usage of the song sung by Ila arun enchanced the otherwise boring movie. Makes me wonder when this guy is going to get a break
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 12.46.179.254) on: Wed May 28 11:38:04 EDT 2003
  
  IR has produced lots of BGM. However little of it is either relevant to the movie, or woven together thematically with the scenes or consistent. IR has overdone BGM and it is a case of virtuosity triumphing over context and necessity. There are several scenes where the music comes in as an unncessary intrusion. MuLLum Malarum and Niram Maaraatha PookkaL come to mind. In both the movies you had a totally unnecessary percussive BGM - In the first when Rajni and Shobha exchange histrionics and in the second whenever Rati stages false alarms and cheats Vijayan. BGM is a very different task from film music. Ideally speaking BGM shd not sound good if heard without watching the movie. In TFM minimalist composers like MSV with a strong swara foundation have produced particularly memorable cuts (all KB/MSV projects). In Hindi Kalyanji and Pyarelal are still unsurpassed. And above all comes to mind Satyajit Ray's movies starting with the peerless Pather Panchali and Charulata (which he scored himself). You can of course listen to IR's isaimazhai if that is all you want. For the rest of us there's hours of other music which is far more satisfying. ARR's work in Fire is the best BGM work we have heard in the last five years in Indian FM. If I want ot listen to WCM in the movies I'd rather listen to John Williams and WCM pure - there's scores of composers from Chopin and Debussey to Stravinsky. I don't want to listen to a wannabe Liszt or Dvorak in Guru.
  
  
• From: Mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Wed May 28 12:39:31 EDT 2003
  
  IR's bgm is nothing short of great even in non musical.action packed, political movies like Amaithi padai, Chathrian, Ramana, crime movies like Nooravathu naal, moodupani, sigappurojakkal. ARR fails in this aspect.His Mudhalvan bgm is just the replica of Omen. The bgm in Kaadhalan is awful. It is annoying to hear the loud cry/roar of some north Indian singer (Nusrat or somebody) every now and then in movies like 1947 earth, Fire etc.
  In movies like Udiripookal, one cannot miss how bgm is infact underplayed. Sandeep's was very impressive in Company.
  
  
• From: kum (@ 202.56.193.87) on: Wed May 28 12:59:42 EDT 2003
  
  Last week I saw Alaipayuthey. As I have seen this movie before, I was just listening to BGM. I guess this movie has worst BGM for MR movie though it had lot of scopes to score...started thinking of all BGM done for MR by IR.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.40.126) on: Wed May 28 13:07:01 EDT 2003
  
  Very "Wordily" put pennathur. But I strongly disagree your general statement about Fire being best and all. The bgm's of Kutti, Azhagki etc far outweigh the feeble Fire. I don't think IR ever superimposes on the movie with his BGM. If so the directors would be irked to no end. A BGM is something which is supposed to enhance the mood of the movie, or increase its value and IR delivers.
  
  ARR et al. need a "moody" film or a period film to get motivated to give good BGM, whereas IR gives the same kind of output in a mass movie
  as well as a class movie. Kalyanji, Pyarelal all have copied liberally from hollywood. Have you ever heard the kind of music they play for comedy scenes in Hindi movies? awful and pitiful.
  
  If you are unable to enjoy IR's BGM's you are missing a lot. IR gives the highest form of Fusion music and within the context of a movie which is very difficult. That is why he considered the master of BGM.
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 12.46.179.254) on: Wed May 28 13:49:30 EDT 2003
  
  Kalyanji and Pyarelal copied from Hollywood? OK how about IR copying Kalyanji's Upkaar number in NeegaL KEttavai? Jokes apart listen to LP's theme in the Rajesh-Sharmila Daag (an ABC on how to use the muted trumpet) and KA's work in the little known Subhash Ghai movie Krodh (the first movie that had LP scoring songs and KA scoring BGM) Indian movies in general have a long way to go in terms of BGM. The earlier classic directors of the 50s and 60s had a stronger control over the movie making process and a generally more nuanced understanding of the different aspects of movies. Then the director was dictator and generally controlled things. So we had music and BGM that was tightly integrated with the plot and theme. A few instruments used subtly and judiciously. That changed with IR's second wind about 1980 onwards when people like BR and later MR began to offer music as a distinct part of the package. Today things are very different which is why you may have a lot of music but very little that is cogent. When you watch Moondram Pirai and the long walk that Kamal takes in searching Sri Devi the violin solo (that later featured in Nothing but the Wind) charmed us a lot. But then when I saw the movie a few years back I found the solo intrusive and overblown unlike the violin solo in Raja Paarvai which happens at a recording session. Today when you listen to the same solo it sounds squawky and amateurish - definitely not something I would play without apprehension. Of the recent directors we have had the late Aravindan in Malayalam was simply outstanding in his use of BGM. His "Pokkuveyil" of life seen thru the eyes of a mentally depressed person is a sublime classic when compared to the more recent Sethu. IR's problem is that he tries to wear too many hats at the same time. When he does justice to one of them he is brilliant. However when he doesn't the long-term value of the product is rather embarassing. Case in point is the jazz-rock piece in Raaja Paarvai. The piece stands out like a sore thumb today when compared with the rest of the songs. While the 'club' number by LRE in Kalai Koil which is totally different number compared to the rest of the classical pieces in the movie even today enthralls. IR's BGM is great once in a while but when it is inappropriate it grates. Anjali was a movie that bubbled with kiddish loudness - IR's BGM instead of providing a contrast intrudes with horns all the time. Like every composer IR too has certain standard sounds that he extracts from his instruments. If you have heard IR's horns once you have heard it all. For close to 15 years IR's horns sounded the same whether in song or BGM. As I said earlier this is a matter of taste where we differ very widely.
  
  Fire is worth listening to. Contrary to what people think there is no North Indian "Nusrat" howling in it! Nusrat BTW died in 1997! There are just a couple of flutes played in ways that you wouldn't imagine! And I strongly recommend a crash viewing of Ray's movies. Start with Pather Panchali with Ravi Shankar's music and on upto Charulata (with SR's own). There's a lot, lot more of BGM in Indian film than what you have heard from IR. A lot's of it is incredibly better. IR as I have said many times is great. So here I am comparing him with other composers and subjecting his work to the criticism that any work of art must endure. To do anything less would be a tragedy.
  
  
• From: vikky (@ 210.210.33.97) on: Thu May 29 00:40:28 EDT 2003
  
  Watch Out 'Sathi Leelavati'. The film will never bore you, even if u see repeated no of times. The surpirising fact is it has very very less BGM and still will give a feeling as if it had great BGM. In one of IR's interview, he has said Silence too is a BGM and enhances the value of the film. He knows this fully well. If u analyse his BGM tracks, he will abruptly maintain a silence to enhance the depth of the scene filled with emotions or dialogues and gradually resume in style. Eg: Sindhu Bhairavi, Apoorva Sahodharargal etc.
  
  
• From: Vandicholai Chinraasu (@ 61.8.210.74) on: Thu May 29 01:15:33 EDT 2003
  
  pennathur,
  
  "However little of it is either relevant to the movie, or woven together thematically with the scenes or consistent. IR has overdone BGM and it is a case of virtuosity triumphing over context and necessity. There are several scenes where the music comes in as an unncessary intrusion."
  
  My dear friend. It is not IR having this problem. Go and see and listen to "Vandicholai Chinraasu". After that, please do come here and talk to us abt 'relevant', 'woven thematically',
  'consistent', 'minimalist', 'virtuosity', 'necessity' and '
  unncessary intrusion'. What more, after watching this film we can also discuss 'incapability', 'rubbish' and 'irritating'. (I can also quote other pieces of garbage similar to the above quoted movie but pls...dun waste my time)
  
  "IR has overdone BGM and it is a case of virtuosity triumphing over context and necessity."
  
  Are you sure you have been watching tamil movies for a long time? Have you seen the quality and condition of these films leave alone the 0.1% minority? Are you sure you want a controlled obscure film music in these movies? Ha ha, you're kidding rite?
  
  "In TFM minimalist composers like MSV...."
  
  Firstly, minimalist music and tamil films do not jive. You have to be blind and deaf not to have noticed that. MSV minimalist?? You are kidding again rite?? For a person who constantly produces screaming and screeching bgm, i can't believe you used the word minimalist for MSV(prob same applies for KVM).
  
  "In Hindi Kalyanji and Pyarelal are still unsurpassed."
  
  My advice to you is check out Naushad and Shankar-Jakishen.
  
  "For the rest of us there's hours of other music which is far more satisfying. ARR's work in Fire is the best BGM work we have heard in the last five years in Indian FM."
  
  You obviously have not seen Lajja, Hey Ram, Sethu Julie Ganapathy, Kathalukku Mariyathai, etc. in the last 5 years.
  
  "If I want ot listen to WCM in the movies I'd rather listen to John Williams and WCM pure - there's scores of composers from Chopin and Debussey to Stravinsky."
  
  Oh come on. JW is not all that great. He is only known for Superman, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jaws and handful others due to the over commercialization of his association with Speilberg and Lucas. There are others whose music are much more mesmerizing and contagious like Georges Delerue, John Scott, Basil Poledouris, Bruce Broughton, Bernad Hermann, Franz Waxman, Alfred Newman, Miklos Rozsa and Dimitri Tiomkin and the godfather of them all, Jerry Goldsmith.
  
  "I don't want to listen to a wannabe Liszt or Dvorak in Guru."
  
  How can you prove that his music is a close resemblance to that of Liszt's or Dvorak's? You are just saying that coz IR's music sounds classical at times, don't you? Anyway, do you have any idea of a thing called 'hommage'? Great composers of our time pay hommage to so may of past composers due to the respect they have. Do you know how much hommage John Williams has paid? Even in his ET he has paid hommage to some classical music which had some ppl mentioning he ripped-off. Do you know how much of Holst's Planet inspired JW in his Star Wars and other music? And get ready for this. Go and listen to the soundtrack of the 40's movie King's Row. Come back and tell me how much the starting music sounds similar to Star Wars and Superman. Now, can we say that John Williams is a Gustav Theodore Holst wannabe? Or can we say JW is Erich Wolfgang Korngold(composer of King's Row) wannabe?
  
  My point here is film music afficiandos know what good music is and also know what paying hommage is compared to plagiarism and copying and wannabe. IR has paid hommage to his favourite composers here and there. It is a whole lot different then a M.Jacson wannabe or a Mozart wannabe without any due credits.
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 61.8.210.74) on: Thu May 29 01:16:56 EDT 2003
  
  Oh don't forget Vandicholai Chinraasu = ambleen
  
  

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