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A complete movie - Hey Ram

Topic started by musicfan (@ 12.32.197.131) on Mon Nov 11 20:17:11 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I discovered Hey Ram all over again a few days back. I believe it should rank as one of those rare "complete movies".It has brilliant music..I mean not the music that is churned out of electronic instruments these days by all MDs(all..includes YSR,VS,HJ and ARR)..Hey Ram is in its own league..with music that makes sense..each song has soo much significance and depth.The synthesis of mantras and carnatic classical with pure melody is a treat.And the background music for this movie is as good as it can really get..The movie has so much of depth(I am a vociferous critic of KamalHassan..and I have appreciated very few of his works- Nayagan, Devar Magan,Sathi Leelavathi..Michael--,Apoorva..are probably those I liked a lot)..but this movie..is a revelation.
If only more directors and music directors got together to create..not just movies..but sheer poetry for the viewer..
I thought Kannathil Muthamittal was an attempt in that direction..although it pales in comparison to Hey Ram..
Are there any others that rank up to Hey Ram ??

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Nov 14 05:50:22 EST 2002
  
  TM -Thevar Magan
  DM -Devar Magan
  Michael -Michael Madana Kamarajan
  
  HCL -This is where i thought Kupps works.(There was this confusion last year when Bharath entered with a close IP address and Kupps explained that they work for the same organisation)
  
  Adada! I had planned a lengthy one on Mahanadi -why it is not a complete film like Th (D)evar Magan? Paarpom.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Thu Nov 14 07:20:43 EST 2002
  
  suresh,
  
  thanks for the clarification. finally my manasaachi became the friendy foe.
  
  yes! im with TM not with HR. aelae sammoovam aedra vandiya (im kuththify golden hair pin in my tuft. this naataamai neither maathify theerpu nor would die if anybody shoots too;-) ).
  
  btw, suresh, as you say TM is better Devar means Gods/Demi-gods, thevar is a caste.
  
  OISG,
  i don't work for HCL. When I told that I work for HP, I guess ur mind would have correlated HCL-HP hence while nalam visaarchifying me your mind would have mapped in the data HCL-HP and retrieved only the HCL part of it and hence confused me too(i know all of you are pal nara narththifying and would cursing me in your mind that why the hell kupps everytime typing lengthy lengthy messages like the recently sacked TN minister natrajan.. why couldn't he just told that "im not working for HCL im working for HP as a consultant". hell with this guy. but u know i wanted to pazhivangify you all thats why. kuzhappaamal kupps-aa impossible). ;-)
  
  
• From: Aalavandhan (@ 203.106.140.203) on: Thu Nov 14 08:27:03 EST 2002
  
  OK, let it then be TM.
  But since when did Devar mean Gods/Demi-gods?
  
  Thamizh-le maathitaangalaa?
  The last I knew, Devan - che - Thevan means God, which is derived from the Sanskrit Deva. Or is it Theva? How come Devar a.k.a. Thevar is also God?
  
  Ithukku Periyamma, Chinnamma translation betteraa irukkuthe, athaanga, Maxi-Mum and Mini-Mum. :)
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.76.215) on: Fri Nov 15 01:17:31 EST 2002
  
  my two cents..
  
  it all depends on how its pronounced and in which context... in the phrase "devargalum (or) thevargalum asurargalum"... or " indiran (thevargalin) devargalin thalaivan", it means the demi-gods... as in "Muppathu mukkodi devargal"... or shall we call them '(male)angels'? :-)
  
  OTOH, "Thevar", when stressed (and not devar), is a caste... no Thevar community person will call himself "Thevan parambarai".. they regard themselves highly and they'll always say "Thevar parambarai". (the difference being the one between "avan" and "avar".) Idhukku mela pona i fear myself being branded as Net Nannan. :-))
  
  anyways, i wd suggest that we put an end to this digression (as it might lead to unnessary troubles as its a sensitive issue) and continue with our discussion. :-)
  
  
• From: Aalavandhan (@ 210.186.51.35) on: Fri Nov 15 05:28:40 EST 2002
  
  Sensitive?
  
  Vj, I think this thread has digressed beautifully and causes the least tension. :)
  You are right about the devargal/thevargal (Suresh, how to forgive you?) :)
  
  The plural for Deva is Devargal, since it cannot be Devaakkal.
  Devaakkal, of course means more than one TT. (athaanga, Thenisai thendral) TFM thaangumo? :)
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 202.156.2.219) on: Fri Nov 15 09:52:09 EST 2002
  
  There was an article in Kumudam I think written by "Pamaran" on Kamal justification using Hema & others to get actual "Iyengar" feel. He argued if so why Kamal acted Thevar Magan! Any comments.
  Sounds correct.This is raised just because Kamal tried to show is smartness by giving junk reason. Fact is casting Hema for typical Iyengar is a funny thing, she may be fit for punjabi lady.
  Kamal casted Sharukh, Hema just for all india marketing. No big reason other than that.
  
  Coming to Nattamai, I may sound odd, but doing a film with nativity has nothing to be ashamed off. Did kurosawa made movies for American viewers. If his strong point is making movies of Samurai then he did it to perfection. Name and fame comes in presentation of theme, nativity, Camera angles, editing etc. Our directors present the native stories in totally non-native mode. thats why it fails to attract localites not speak of national or intenational audiance. I can give upteen examples for both. 16 vaiyadinela Taj mahal(Opp).Kamal also goes by technological gizmos rather than core strength of movie making. Just to put it bluntly, Kamal want to highlight LtoL kiss even in period movies. This to me quite unnatural.
  
  
• From: Aswathama (@ 68.58.127.57) on: Fri Nov 15 09:54:11 EST 2002
  
  Anyways, coming back to the topic. If you notice in Hey! Ram Kamalhassan is in each and every frame of the movie. So it makes all the flashback in the movie authentic. It really makes sense because TF is used to have flasback and Koundmani and Senthil will have some joke scenes.
  
  As a director Kamalhassan done a great job.
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sat Nov 16 03:23:14 EST 2002
  
  speaker ,
  HEY RAM was a film which was directed by him .So he had a choice of charaters .Also not all films require such characterisation..It was required in that film ...
  
  
  
• From: Comments (@ 172.164.39.252) on: Sat Nov 16 15:42:02 EST 2002
  
  Hi,
  
  I felt that the Hindi actors' accented/struggling Tamil was quite distracting. Would have been easier for Tamil audience if someone else had dubbed for them. I wonder if having them speak in Hindi and having captions would have worked.
  
  The other thing I found distracting was Kamal's frequent changes in appearance. I know that it indicates his changing psyche but there were simply so many changes that it felt forced and took focus away from the story.
  
  I was quite surprised that the song "Nee partha" song did not go to the top of the charts. Great song plus great picturisation. Made me wonder if the average audience no longer cared much for IR.
  The song "Ramaraanalum", IMO, was a letdown and could have been avoided.
  
  Kissing/steamy scenes: Kamal could have downplayed them. Gave the distractors another reason to complain. In Tamil cinema, it seems the audience has no problem with vulgar songs, dances and skimpily clad heroines. They love it. However if there is a kissing scene, they raise a hue and cry. Wonder if they are really pissed off that the hero got lucky :-))
  
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 12.162.224.5) on: Sat Nov 16 19:24:52 EST 2002
  
  Kamal films make me feel that he is very much influenced by English(American) movies and he wants the Tamil audiences to come up to that level.Try hard Makeup's,LTL Kisses,unique screenplays(heyram),violence(kurudhipunal)..etc etc..
  But tamil audiences are still not ready to accept those films..
  Kamal is not a person for last century..he shud have born in this century..
  
  "Made me wonder if the average audience no longer cared much for IR."
  
  Exactly true Comments.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 64.129.181.69) on: Sat Nov 16 23:32:06 EST 2002
  
  "Made me wonder if the average audience no longer cared much for IR." - its the same "average" audience who made Azhagi and Kaasi songs hit right ?
  
  and "comments" - regarding why people keep complaining about LTL kiss..... when the songs and dance movements got vulgar - the same people did complain about that..... and no one cared..... and see where we are now..... similar would be the case of LTL kiss too..... hmm.... we always want to *westernise* ourself right...... peeps - nothing wrong in getting the *good* stuff from the outside world..... is LTL kiss really needed for our culture (hmmm our culture!!!!!!) ????? wonder if kamal would allow some other hero to kiss his daughter's or wife('s!!!!!)......
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Sun Nov 17 00:04:16 EST 2002
  
  Sorry dig on L2L:
  
  Here too i am on Kamal side(naturally!).You accept Clark Cable L2L during American civil war why not Hey Ram!L2L(sounds nice like B2C,C2B right,what?) dates back to even Tirukkural days.I shall recollect the Kural and post.there was an intense fight in Kumudam(naturally!) between director Pa.Neelakantan and Tamil Vithagargal on when and where the L2L originated.(Romba thevai naatukku!)Pa.Ne insisted on its Roman origins but lost out finally.
  
  When you present a movie like HR you need to strike a balance on the national appeal certainly.The issue indeed was "national" shown thru the eyes of an individual from TN.Here where along with Kamal IR erred i think."Nee Partha parvai" was terrific but fitting that into the mood of the movie s national platform is difficult.We "Thinnai" critics have a logic...Mukkala Muqabla is a great imaginative song..Sankarabaranam was a great movie...but you cannot have Muqqala muqabla in Sankarabaranam movie.
  
  But in TM(back!) all the songs had the rustic,tamil feel which gelled with the movie absolutely.(except the short but great "maasaru ponne Varuga"-ofcourse this too could have passed for a Psuseela bhakthi song during the Ther Thiruvizha)
  
  Honestly,IR efforts did not reach the intended detination.The music of HR made more news for all the wrong reasons.Had it been his prime, when even stupid Katta vandi,Nethu Rathiri gained popularity,IR s inputs and its reach would have been different.A better effort like HR would have given a professional satisfaction to Raja himself.
  
  
• From: Thiru (@ 63.169.243.35) on: Sun Nov 17 00:58:09 EST 2002
  
  Guys,
  A very interesting Thread and really good discussions deviating from the usual new releases appreciations and digressions...
  
  Coming to Hey Ram!! We need to see kamal in two different aspects.. Kamal as a director and as an actor... The actor part was his usual stuff. nothing out of the ordinary .... he deserves his usual appreciation like his other movies... but kamal as a director was the one I had to look out for..and damn he was great... ofcourse there were his own flaws and holes but that does happen for a rookie.... We can always feel kamal's participation as a director in Kuruthi punal, Thevar magan and importantly mahanadhi....
  In my opinion, kamal tries to cover everything in one movie... He gets caught between delivering what he sees in hollywood for the indian audience... Some of my friends saying that the 'Can I hug you' words looked a bit over limit for a traditional brahmin family in the 40's and 50s....He covers aspects like thiruttu dhum,baang and prostitution which were probably way ahead of its time... To me kamal measured each and everything while he shot the movie but his measure of periods might seem awkward for some ppl...As someone had pointed out, the inclusion of shahrukh , hemamalini & rani mukherjee was more of a commerical ploy by kamal.. and same with the 'raamar aanalum' song.... probably he got caught again with his thoughts and money..... A lot of things had to be appreciated in this movie... the scenes in calcutta and srirangam were portrayed very well.... the movie ended in a kind of a sober note... his reasons leading to Gandhi’s was not convincing..the dec 6 riots in chennai added more of a communal picture... The movie definitely was a good one but it was definitely not a perfect ten....
  
  I got mesmerized by two songs by IR in the 90s... One was 'Thendral vandhu theendum podhu'... and the other one was 'Nee partha'...I'm an ARR fan and I don’t want to deny or hide that but to me IR had compensated all with these two songs in one full decade...BGM is like an icing on the cake for IR.... I was stunned by Guna's BGM when I saw the movie few weeks back.. Heyram is no different from that....I do believe that kamal-IR work more better as a team rather than being alone....
  
  OISG,kupps & suresh nice write up guys... I had the pleasure of reading some genuine critics in this thread...
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sun Nov 17 01:04:34 EST 2002
  
  tHIS IS TE BEST THREAD ,SO FAR IN newtfmpage
  
  

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