Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Thu Feb 17 16:46:37 EST 2000
  
  chidams,
  There was a time when people couldn't afford to buy tape recorders/cd players. So I dont think there was much emphasis on quality of recording. Dont hold this against IR :) Ironically, even now his recording is not as good as ARRs for the POP style songs. He does well for classical orchestration. IR being an old-fashioned guy may have a distrust for technology in a artisitic field like music. It may also because he may not have a good idea about what computers/digital technology can do for him.
  ARR having worked in the advertising will understand marketing better. This also applies to directors like Mani Ratnam (BIM-MBA) who work with him.
  I wish I could IR's product manager :)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Thu Feb 17 16:47:55 EST 2000
  
  I said I "wanted to be IR's product manager" not kill his product manager or something :)
  
  
• From: chidams (@ 38.23.1.248) on: Thu Feb 17 17:56:27 EST 2000
  
  kiru, you are correct.
  
  IR is a genius in music and behaves like one [sometimes giving some not so polished statements]
  
  Whereas, ARR is a practical man; or so, it looks like nowadays [even "man" is a part of his name :). He is not so gifted as IR in generating the entire music bits for a song in his mind. He claims that he starts with a basic tune/rhythm and adds more tracks [and deletes] till the song is upto his liking.
  
  IR did have some quite nice recordings like the songs of Priya [whose quality of recording is still very nice]. Maybe because of the high cost in getting upto such quality recordings, IR neglected that [or did not press the producers with such requests]
  
  I agree that even now, IR and Deva songs are not having good quality recording. IR's son had a good quality recorded song, but did not continue.
  
  Yes, IR really needs a hi-tech/marketing expert these days.
  
  
• From: SS (@ 203.197.154.166) on: Thu Feb 17 22:38:22 EST 2000
  
  ADA! ENTHA THREADI MOTHALE NIRUTHUNGAPPA!!!!
  "BATSHA"IR ODA "BATCHA"ARR POIE COMPARE PANNARATHU ROMMBA MUTALTHANAM!!!!
  
  
• From: Genuine musician (@ 202.9.149.91) on: Fri Feb 18 01:30:12 EST 2000
  
  Good points, chidams.I.R.s recording quality was superior to M.S.V. and that along with his brilliant arrangement skills made him takeover T.F.M. In his initial years as M.D. he tried a lot of experimentation with sound,new voices etc.But after some years he stopped all that and produced music at an astonishingly furious pace.Sometimes he recorded 3 songs a day but the minimum was 2.Only I.R. could do that and he gave us wonderful songs inspite of the amazing speed of production.But it was too much of a good thing and so it didnt last forever.Morover I.R.s heart,I think,was more in creating instrumental scores and so came the gems-How to name it& Nothing but wind.And whilst we waited with bated breath the symphony never came which is a pity.And whenever it is released it is sure to sweep us off our feet.Honestly there is nothing left for him in T.F.M. and should stay away from it. A.R.R. succeeded against the I.R. wave because he changed the way music was made.He operated from his tiny home studio and everyone laughed at him.Today the same people are busy acquring home studios and C.D.roms.Instead of working on 60 songs a month A.R.R. worked furiously on 2 songs a month and perfected it to such an extent that the results were truly awesome.There were always surprises like a dilruba on Oorvasi or a percussive chorus in Raasaathi.There was always tremendous feel and involvement in his instrumental pieces and in his singers.And of course the notes were all perfect.And one could sense that the music was done with passion and enjoyment-much like early I.R.Another aspect is the freedom that artistes are said to enjoy ar A.R.R.s place.I believe he is constantly innovating till the last mix-down.A.R.R. a marketing man?No way,Roja came to him, awards came to him H.F.M. came to him and now Andrew Lloyd Webber.He is a true genius and let us wish him a great future in the West as well.
  
  
• From: Sanjay (@ tntport0678.cwjamaica.com) on: Tue Feb 22 10:40:04 EST 2000
  
  well said, G.m. !
  
  
• From: R.Prakash (@ backgammon.freeuk.net) on: Wed Feb 23 01:48:11 EST 2000
  
  Reading all this creates a feeling of deja vu for me!I have been following IR`s Music throughout his career-we read the same arguments 20 years back-then it was MSV Vs IR.Ten to fifteen years from now ARR is going to be in the same situation what IR is now in and MSV was in 25 years back.remember,Mozart died a pauper`s death and even now no one knows where he is buried-and this year he was voted as the best composer of all times!Vivaldi`s Four seasons was a completely forgotten piece of music till almost 300 years after it was composed and again it was voted as the best composition of all times this year.
  Time will tell who is a better composer-but remember-just becauseARR`s recording sounds better
  (which allows him to get away with inane and stupid songs like `Shakalaka` sounding like the gratest song),just because Northies like him(They rejected Kamal-That does`nt make Amitabh or Dharmendra better actors)-all said and done ARR IS A PRODUCT OF MODERN DAY HYPE-With the cable TV bombarding you with the songs throughout the day even the silliest and stupidest song becomes the current rage.
  
  one of the reasons for his success has been the jingle like quality of his songs-a throwback to his ad composing days.This may probably be his greatest strength as well as his weakness.
  Iam a confessed IR phile-so let me finish this on
  this note-ARR touches the ear(or should it be teases?)while IR touches the heart.
  ARR may be great,but Raja is the greatest!
  
  
• From: Krishnan (@ jester.ti.com) on: Wed Feb 23 02:47:32 EST 2000
  
  Very well said Mr R.Prakash.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.146) on: Wed Feb 23 07:43:54 EST 2000
  
  15 years from now?:-)
  
  Already ARR sounds so repetitive..still he rules the market partly thanks to good business skills. I won't be surprised if he rules unchallenged even after 20 years because the position has been built more on connections, clever musical packaging (konjam hindustani, konjam pop, konjam southie ragA with foot-tapping rhythm, at times borrowed, IMO), publicity and such business strengths rather than pure creative musical merits. The growth is very different from the case of the creative genius like MSV,IR who captured the masses just thro' AIR & marriage halls..even terrrible flop movies like `karumbu vil'(ran at some places for a single day I think) had super hit songs!
  
  Position & longevity of music are two different aspects & what RP said is correct to a great extent! I won't bother about any of those MJ chart busters which were so dear to me during college days while listen another 1000 times or more the PM version of 1st movement of Mozart's symphnoy no.40!
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.146) on: Wed Feb 23 07:47:12 EST 2000
  
  sorry, typo:
  
  Read `I'll listen another 1000 times...'
  
  
• From: Athi (@ dialup-166.90.65.61.chicago1.level3.net) on: Thu Feb 24 00:08:50 EST 2000
  
  Mr.Prakash,
  
  Very well written expressing excellent musical
  taste.
  
  Athi
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 209.8.128.113) on: Sun Feb 27 01:55:39 EST 2000
  
  From Chennaionline.com:
  
  "Lyricist Vairamuthu was all praise for A.R.Rehman and said that it is easier for Illayaraja to compose folk tunes, as he was born and brought up in a village. But Rehman, being a city product, has been able to create folk tunes because of his in-depth urge to explore good music."
  
  :-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.148) on: Sun Feb 27 07:54:06 EST 2000
  
  ARR's (supposedly) folk songs manifest that he is city bred:-)
  
  KavignarkaL enthakkAlaththilum unmai pEsuvadhu kidaiuadhu:-(
  
  PoyyilE piRanthu, poyyilE vaLarndha...
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.148) on: Sun Feb 27 08:09:46 EST 2000
  
  Visited a music shop in the neighborhood last evening to get some VCD's (they have them too..guess the name of the shop: `ecstasy'!)..found `alai pAyudhe' CDs and cassettes practically everywhere in the shop in display! One shop attenant was even persuading me to take one `romba nallArukkum sir'...
  
  Having invested in such a big inventory, it is now for the shopwallah to somehow market the huge qty...when have we seen anyone doing all these for PM, AO and such massive hits of IR?
  
  ARR depends more on `promos' than musical ability, IMO!
  
  
• From: Athi (@ 1cust88.tnt41.chi5.da.uu.net) on: Sun Feb 27 12:21:09 EST 2000
  
  I think ARR is coming to US not for a break but to
  get some new songs etc(!!!) for his new ventures
  since he ran out of the previous tunes etc that
  he was recycling very nicely.In India,the variety of western music shown in satellite tv etc doesn't have that much variety and so the genius(!!!) ARR has to come to US to decide on which tunes and music to reuse and recycle(which will be topping all the music charts in India for a while).
  
  It was hilarious reading someone's earlier posting that ARR doesn't rely on marketing.In fact he relies only on marketing and hype.Without that,it is very difficult to imagine where he will be.Just look at the movies he signs for,none of them is produced by a new producer or a small budget producer.He always relies on established directors etc without whom his albums crash very badly.Ofcourse the established directors who promoted him,are losing their market and are in a miserable shape.Many examples can be given for this.
  
  Regarding diamond's opinion on ARR,what else you can expect to say when he is surviving based on the recycled tunes of ARR.I never bother about what diamond says.I think he has his eyes and ears shut both when he writes and when he talks.
  
  Can the same diamond give the reason for IR composing amazing music for city based movies? Because according to him,IR is born in Village and knows folk music very well.
  
  Athi
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments