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WHY IR CAN NOT BE THE BEST OF TFM?

Topic started by karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on Sun Jan 31 04:05:48 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have found since I came into this forum that there are many IR lovers who, just would not pay heed to listen to great works of Viswanathan Ramamoorthy or the like who had done wonders to the Tamil Film Music, but only go about claiming him to be the best.

Similarly, the ones who do not treat IR as the best have not found an opportunity to compare his works or so called creations with the great works of other musicians.

I would like the arguments to confine only to the Tamil Film songs in their completeness, and please, don't bring in the Re-recording or the Back Ground Music of a film, or separate albums from the MDs if any. After all, when we hear songs we don't always think of the movies they came from!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Thu Feb 11 10:52:50 EST 1999
  
  Raj,
  
  Enna neenga ippadi sollttEL? "Till this moment, No one has pointed..."- naa thaan objective andha maadhiri avar ezhudhinadhu thappunnu ezhudhittEynE. paakkalaiyaa neenga? BTW, if you are referring to me in your post, I am not Rajesh. I am Raja Govindarajan (rajaG in short). You can see that I came up with the pseudonym after lot of deliberation.
  
  
• From: Clarify (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Feb 11 15:08:42 EST 1999
  
  Geetha
  I have never attacked you or anybody else personally.....and I will *not* do so in future, even if provoked. Good attempt though.
  
  I am neither happy nor unhappy if you (or anybody else) stays in the forum or not. The forum will go on ... Refer to my earlier posting in some thread when I said the same thing --- staying here or not is a matter of preference. But if you stay here and say something that a fellow surfer does not like, (in this case me); then I will try my best to decently refute your post.
  
  But if you say things like we pick on you because you are girls .... then it is beneath my dignity to answer you.
  
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet-fw1-o.oracle.com) on: Thu Feb 11 16:11:36 EST 1999
  
  ennappaa idhu!? Ilayaraasava ambo-nnu vittutttu ellorum sandai podareenga! adhaan mutual-a apologies exchange panniyaache... adhoda vitra vendiyathuthaane.
  
  topic-kkukku vaanga!
  
  < idhu kooda digression-dhaan! >
  
  
• From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.26.27) on: Thu Feb 11 17:57:09 EST 1999
  
  Slighta ennai maadhiri irukkanga ellarumnu ninaikkiraen :))))))))( idhu sththiyamaga siripukkuthan...siripukkuthan....siripukkuthan :)))
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Feb 11 20:55:34 EST 1999
  
  Forgive this digression, but this is a response.
  Raj,
  I usually try not to address personal accusations on a public forum, but it has come to such heights, I'll address it.
  I reproduced your post which triggered this whole ugly episode in the other thread:
  "ARR has done it again... featuring in all songs(Ninaithen Vanthai Style)" Y?Geetha;Y are you contradicting your proclaimed name(ARR rasigar) by comparing with Ni.Va? Even a ARR-baiter like me wouldnt dare do that! :)
  You call this innocent humor? I see it as obnoxious goading. Everyone perceives things differently. I said that it was unfortunate Geetha fell for the fan-club vitriol--she fell for it, she indulged in it, she traded remarks. I wanted her to concentrate on music oriented threads explaining the ragam base of songs and the uniqueness in renditions of songs which she always does well and enlightens people like me. It would be a loss for me if Geetha were to discontinue her participation, especially as a result of your innocent humor. You're damn right I supported her. You think she was harsh, you're right. But I also think that you were asking for it.
  
  I look forward to reading what Geetha, Sriram Lakshman, Sridhar Seetharaman, Vijay, Srikanth and the likes have to say about the technical aspects of music. For historical detail of famous personalities, I read the old school delights--Manisegaran, Bones, NOV, etc. For statistics I go to certain threads where Ramki hangs around. Generally I like reading about anything that's news to me and I'm choosy about which threads I participate in and favor the thoughts of those who don't subscirbe to the one-and-only-artist theory. It is fan-club vitriol when it impedes on others' enjoyment. Go look at the ugliness of all the Deva threads if you want examples or look at an outright bashing thread, "ARR Bashers" and tell me how fair that is. If you find anyone impeding in an IR thread like "IR's new albums" or "IR's creativity", let me know, I'll write against it. If you want to review an ARR album (with or without bias) you have every right and I won't question that. But when you goad someone who contributes fairly, I'm going to show my support for that person.
  
  
  (Udhaya sir, forgive me for the following observation..but I feel like asking "Mannavanum neeyo....vala naadum unatho..." etc to you. Of all the posts berating me, yours hurt me the most because I didnt expect you to pronounce that hasty and rash judgement).
  Naan mannavanum illai chinnavanum illai, idayil engo oru moolayil yen idam. I don't believe mine was a hasty and rash judgement. But if you still believe so, you are welcome to that belief. I responded at length because your hurt seems real. Also, I know when this thread hits the Archives, Ravi will eliminate all needless banter (this would become needless, once you read it, Raj.) Try to have fun here, man. And create an interesting thread for your idol, no one denies you that and if someone goads your earnest contribution, I'll support you. In the future, just click on my hyperlinked name, you'll find my e-mail address. You can address all personal stuff there so we can spare the DF our personal vitriol.
  
  Increase the Peace,
  Udhaya
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Thu Feb 11 22:24:26 EST 1999
  
  velaiyathavan! sariyaana velaiyathavan nee!
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Thu Feb 11 22:35:45 EST 1999
  
  Raj - I was just joking when I called you childish, should I have used a smiley there? sorry I thought you understood better :-). Enna paNradhu Raj, enakku pidicha IR songs-laam naa ErkanavE sollittEn, and I also have quoted that long list of movies! Adhai thavirthu enakku vera endha IR-Oda IMO uruppadiyaana songs-um sathiyamaa ninaivillai. So just wait till I tumble upon something. This is not to be interpreted as I have no more claim for MSV sariyaa. see you all guys later!
  
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Thu Feb 11 22:37:00 EST 1999
  
  Thavira, naa andha maadhiri songs quote paNNaalum neenga ahdai unga BGM story vechu defend paNNa pOreenga! so, idhukku mudivu engEnum irukkaa sollunga! - Nyaabagam vandhudhu sonnEn.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Feb 12 04:47:48 EST 1999
  
  Alright, I was caught complaining about ill-treatment:), something I thought no one can ever catch me doing!
  
  My last word on the issue:
  1.Geetha, I have mailed to your hotmail address.please do see it.
  2.RajaG: Oh! I didn tforget your support at all! I even sent a mail to your sprintmail address thanking you for you runderstanding immediately I saw your posting in that thread. It is just that I consider you really objective , especially after the spar we had on Kamalahassan, when we both agreed to disagree. That incident immediately gave you an OBJECTIVE(TRULY) status in my mind and so, I wasnt referring to your post.
  Please dont think I forgot ur support.
  BTW, I know you as RajaG, RajaJI et al. I knew you werent Rajesh. I was referring to anohter "post-man" called Rajesh , who has expressed an appreciation of my posts( though I wonder how he manages to do it...)
  
  
  3. Udhaya sir, I have mailed to you personallly. But since my fair name seems to be under question , I will just state a few facts:
  
  1. Yes, Mine was plain, innocent humour. I will say that with my conscience clear and head held high. I enjoy having friendly spars(as opposed to heated dishum-dishums...ample proof can be had from my spar with Madhan and RajaG in the "Kamal as a singer" thread(But Ravi has deleted that portion). I didnt know of Geethas sensitivity to this particular issue. If I had, I wouldnt have chosen to direct the remark at her. If anyone still cant believe me, I have no means/interest to convince them. The sad part is I had declared this clearly in my explanation to Geetha the first time. What can I say if people dont read/take that explanation and still continue acusing me?
  
  3. I still believe in Srinath's assertions that anything is blown out of proportion if it is done by a IR-fan. Especially, if person believs in the supremacy of Raja . Proof needed? I have it, my dear friends, I have it. It is as follows:
  
  Once Nithin started a thread stating his "Wishes for Ilayaraaja". He had started off stating how he wished Raja composed Theme music etc. Then , out of the blue, comes this post from Thiruvalar Bones, :
  
  "I have an almost similar list for Deva".
  
  Now, none of the so-called "Blind IR fanatics" cried foul. They took the remark in the right spirit. None of us cried out "Hey!Bones!You are always putting down us for supporting IR". Nitin didnt complain "Hey! You are trying to insult my intelligence". So much for our intolerance of criticism on Raja! But when I make a similar remark on a funny note, without malice, I am berated. And after I explain my position and even apologise to geetha(for having been an UNWITTING cause of her hurt), Udhaya sir came up with "Fan-club vitriol". Heres the relevant portion from my post. Mind, this was written BEFORE Udhaya sir came up with fanclub vitriol.
  
  "Geetha: 1. I didnt intend to attack you inmy first post.If you had paid attention, you would have noticed the :), which was supposed to indicate a funny, rather than, inflamatory remark. Okay, you didnt notice that. Fine. But... ...2)I stated this clearly in my second post. If you still didnt understand and f you misinterpreted it and hurt yourself(Boy!What a talent!) ,well, I am polite enough to apologise for being an unwitting cause of your hurt. "
  
  First of all Udhaya sir came up with FCV after I showed such politeness and understanding. Not just that , he has reiterated in this thread that "I was asking for it" in this thread. To me, this only means "Just because Raj subscribes to 'One-and-only-artist' theory, he deserves to be bashed even when he is not at fault". So, who is intolerant of a conflicting dogma?
  I dont botehr if I am indicted, even if unreasonably. But to create a general impression that "There is a bunch of IR-fanatics here. It doesnt allow anyone else to criticise Raja. It is an intolerant, uncouth bunch always trying to put down genuine posters." is unacceptable and unjustified. I protest and strongly, at that.
  
  The fact that we took bones' slanderous remark in the right spirit whereas a similar remark by me sparked off such bashing and a subsequent "You deserve the bashing you got" proves who is tolerant and who is intolerant. Thats alll I can say.
  
  Udhaya sir, I am sorry I wrote all this here. But if it was a matter of being personally indicted I wouldnt have botehred too much. But since in this forum, a general impression is being created that we are all a bunch of ignoramus IR-fanatics, not given to manners, I had to point out the irony in this general impression. Nothing offensive meant. There is no way I could have kept these observations to personal mails alone, involving, as it does, so many people.
  
  Yes, peace be to all.But also, let justice to be all. Let not anyone be hanged without a fair trial for the simple sin of beleiving in Raja's supremacy!
  
  
  Lastly. Karthi: Take your own time.:) I had thought of taking a week-off from the forum yesterday because of pressing deadlines and owing to having spent today also here, I am hard-pressed for my deadline and therefore, will be off for some time. But you are right. Whatever you come up with, I am sure I can justify it in the BGM light. Well, dont blame me for it..it is Raja's greatness!
  BTW, So, you are also accepting that you are now "MSV-CAMPER"? Not an "Objective middle-grounder" anymore?
  ( I am referring to your "...no more claim for MSV.." comment. Doesnt that mean you claim MSV as the greatest? If so, I am happy. Because that will automatically transfer you to the "One-artist--is-greatest" group, and you will then lose your objective status !Welcome to the "villain-list" , kARTHI !)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Feb 12 18:03:26 EST 1999
  
  The denouement to this sprawling soap-opera:
  Idhanaal arivikkappaduvathu ennavendraal. . .
  the issue has been taken to e-mails and concerned parties will resolve the issue or retreat to a Mexican standoff.
  
  

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