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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Note: You may want to refer to the list of raga based film songs before posting a query.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 19.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Apr 14 17:30:12 EDT 1998
  
  
  Hi Ram Kumar
  
  'Panchanadeesa' krithi?
  
  - Composer:Thayagaraja
  Ragam : Gaurimanohari
  
  --- Srikanth
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45220.ece.umn.edu) on: Tue Apr 14 19:34:17 EDT 1998
  
  'malargaLe' song can not be in panthuvaraLi!
  
  Madhuvanthi and dharmavathi are different ragams with the same notes, IMHO. The example of dharmavathi in TFM is 'iLanchOlai poothathA' sung by SPB by IR ( which film? ) and example of madhuvanthi in TFM is 'ennuLLil engO' from rOsAppoo ravikkaikkAri by IR sung by vANi jeyaram.
  
  Madhuvanthi has the rough arOhaNam of ( or prominent pakkad? ) Ni Sa Ga Ma Pa Ni and avarOhaNam of Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma Ga Ri Sa.
  
  
• From: Anand (@ news.ntu.edu.sg) on: Wed Apr 15 00:06:25 EDT 1998
  
  poorya Dhanashree is close to Hamsanandhi/Kaamavardhini acc to the Hindustani-carnatic equivalences....and not panthuvarali..
  
  BTW, a famous Panthuvarali song is..Hai Raama in Rangeela...
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45208.ece.umn.edu) on: Wed Apr 15 12:28:45 EDT 1998
  
  I feel Hai raama in Rangeela is kamavardhani because it does justice to the name! :-) ( kamavardhani = that instigates erotic feelings )
  
  
• From: anon (@ ts9-8.slip.uwo.ca) on: Wed Apr 15 22:56:51 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha:
  As remarked in the thread, Poorya Dhanashree is the Hindustani equivalent of Pantuvarali (a.k.a. Kamavardhini, due to the Katyapadi numbering formula). It is classified under the Marwa That in Hindustani (corresponding to the 53rd mela Gamanasrama) only because there are only 10 Thats in Hindustani (and not the 32 non-vivadi melas possible), and Marwa was the closest one for P.D. I suppose... there is no trace of ri1 in malargale. If you want, I can notate the song for you. This is a truly beautiful song...one of favourite ARR numbers.
  
  Rathnakanthi is a dha varjya derivative of Latangi (or equivalently Kalyani). There are only a couple of places in the charanam of kumkumam manjalukku where IR uses dha2. So, it seemed appropriate to say the song was in Rathnakanti.
  
  By the way, IR has done this a few times, most recently in the song katha pola from veera thalattu. He uses the dha varjya derivative of kiravani (rishipriya) and sure enough dha 1 appears a couple of times in the antara, towards the end. Another example, the derivative kesar nat (kedar nat?) of Sarasangi (or equivalently, Shankarabharanam), which he used in the song nee oru kadal sangeetham from Nayagan. I am sure the intrusion of these dha notes in the ragam must stem from some western-music-theoretical expediency. It is all too frequent to be accidental. May be somebody can enlighten me on this. My knowledge of western classical is limited: with some effort I can read notated music, and that is the extent of it.
  
  Song in Behag: kai vinai from Vietnam Colony. There is another song "vanna mane"sung by Uma and Minmini (music IR) that was never released. Good examples from Hindi by RD: beethi na bithayi from Parichay and zingai ki safar from some movie I don't know. Great songs...
  
  SD and RD were tops for Khamaj That ragas... IR is no slouch either with Harikhamboji (its equivalent). ARR's chandiranai from Ratchagan is good...
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Thu Apr 16 01:29:27 EDT 1998
  
  hi geetha,
  i can readily think of one good old song in behag which is "aaduvome paLLu paduvome" by DKP.
  
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Thu Apr 16 01:31:18 EDT 1998
  
  hi there!
  
  i have not come across any song in REVATHI after MSV's "manthira punnagai minnidum menagai" in manalkairu. have there been any by raja or rahman?
  
  
• From: Ramaswamy Gireesan (@ ics1f.m.srv.t-online.de) on: Thu Apr 16 07:17:01 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Hari, good top note that you are back. I am still in Germany, and have got hold of some more IR songs which I will upload next week.
  
  Is 'chiththiram pesudhadi' from a sivaji film (starring chandrababu in a dual role) set to behag?
  
  Regards
  
  G. Ramaswamy
  
  
• From: shyam (@ 192.147.35.56) on: Thu Apr 16 09:06:26 EDT 1998
  
  Bhadri raghavan:
  
  rEvathi
  
  sangeetha jaathi mullai -- kaathal Oviyam
  kanavu onRu thOnRuthE -- oru Otai nathiyaakiRathu
  --
  manthirappunnakai minnitum -- maNal kayiRu -- msv
  
  enaku raaga pathi yeduvumE theriyaathu aanaalum, pala nalla paadalgal raga based songs irukirathaale "Lakshmi narayanan"oda Ilayaraja's classic music article padichEn.
  
  AthilE avru revathi raga based songs kuduthatahi than ingE ezuthiirukeen.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Thu Apr 16 09:50:52 EDT 1998
  
  Pal: Madhuvanthi takes Avarohanam :
  S G M P N S
  S N D P M G R S
  from Mela Dharmavathi.
  
  The Carnatic Composition 'KANDANAAL MUDHALAI' sung by GNB or Sudha Ragunathan Kalyanaraman Sir is set to Madhuvanthi. Dharmavathi takes the name Madhuvanthi in Hindustaani Music, but they are distinctively different.
  
  The song 'TathithThom' from 'Azlagan', by Maragathamani is pure Dharmavathi.
  
  Pal: You are right, the Kamavardhini name is very appropriate. As you know that is the old name for Panthuvarali.
  
  Govindan (Anon) : Thanks for the information on Kunguma Manchalukku, I found it in the Raga Pravaham book, but didn't have the song available to check on the key-board.
  
  Anon & Pal: Also, that Pooriya Dhanashree, I think Ganesh-Kumaresh may have made a mistake, I too was baffled at the association of 'Malargale' with that Ragam. Is it safe to say that 'Malargale' is Saraswathi, with hints of Hamir Kalyaani?
  
  
• From: shyam (@ 192.147.35.56) on: Thu Apr 16 12:44:14 EDT 1998
  
  Other songs in tharmaavathi
  
  chukam chukam ithu -- vaNtichchOlai chinnaraaj
  ottakaththaik kattikkO -- jentil mEn
  mINtum mINtum vaa -- vikram
  iLam chOlai pUththathaa -- unakkaakavE naan vaazkiREn
  hE aiyaa chaami -- varusham 16
  konjchi konjchi -- vIraa
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45220.ece.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 16 12:47:04 EDT 1998
  
  anon,
  I have not heard ratnakanthi, but in the song 'kungumam manjaLukku' Ri is also comes rarely. So, taking both dha and ri comes rarely, the song can be thought as to be in amruthavarshini...
  
  this reminds me of one more instance where IR has 'drifted' into dha in amruthavarshini in the song 'thoongAtha vizhigaL rendu' in agninakshatram. If I remember correct in the second interlude. Somehow, this song 'kungumam manjaLukku' doesnt have that kalyANi touch at all! right?
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45220.ece.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 16 12:52:25 EDT 1998
  
  R. Gireesan,
  
  Isnt 'chithiram pEsuthadi' from sabAsh meena a pure kalyani? BTW, ( I may be ignorant ) who is this hari?? I dont see him in the present responses...
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45220.ece.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 16 12:57:02 EDT 1998
  
  I feel IR has given a new tilt to dharmavathi in these songs :
  
  kAtRil enthan geetham - jAni
  nalam vAzha ennALum - maRupadiyum
  
  
• From: pal (@ c45220.ece.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 16 12:58:51 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha,
  you may call 'malargaLE' hameer kalyani with saraswathi touches. I prefer to stay back with my idea, ie this song is too light to be classified classical. The song is one of the great from ARR though!
  
  
• From: anon (@ 4037ad.sscl.uwo.ca) on: Thu Apr 16 13:49:38 EDT 1998
  
  Pal,
  
  I am Hari, a.k.a. anon...
  
  On Kungumam manjalukku, I beg to differ. Ri is quite frequent. In fact it occurs right in the first line, as in:
  
  kungumam manjalukku
  sa ri sa ri sa ri sa
  
  Dha2 on the other hand occurs at about 4 places (in one line) in each charanam.
  
  The Johnny song you refer to is, I think, in Kiravani.
  
  In my opinion, IR's best (and also the best filmi) Dharmavathi is the song (pardon my telugu) "en devva theesavura" by SPB and SJ in the film "Aswamedham" A beautifully arranged song... A must in any IR fan's collection. (This movie was dubbed in to tamil under the name Dharma Bhoomi, and I don't think IR was within 50 miles of the recording of the songs for this one!)
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 16 14:35:40 EDT 1998
  
  sorry anon ( hari ) ,
  I was wrong in mentioning the song.... I got confused with the song 'thoorathil naan kaNda un mugam' ( nizhalgaL?! ) .... My memory keeps failing me... So, I will check this with my kbd and confirm... this is a dharmavathi...
  
  
• From: pal (@ x101-145-87.unreg.umn.edu) on: Thu Apr 16 14:37:16 EDT 1998
  
  anon,
  can you give any link for this telugu song? I cant wait to listen to it...
  
  

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