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Subbudu

Topic started by Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on Wed Dec 26 04:23:24 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Check out the latest issue of Kumudam (The new year issue I suppose). Subbudu has been shooting his mouth about the state of TFM in 2001. Surprisingly the usually-abrasive Subbudu says things like 'Please dont think I'm blaming Rahman outright...' and adds another sentence to pacify ARR fans.

Anyway thats besides the point. The issue is that Subbudu lists about 5 very melodious songs as the best of 2001, like vaseegara, azhage sugama and so on. And totally denounces fast, peppy tracks and other such numbers. Is he trying to say that those numbers are pointless?

He also seems to hate 'vaadi vaadi' from ATV. Seems like he doesnt want an entire genre of songs to be out and popular. Imagine if all TFM is just melody music what will be its state?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Vijay (@ 12.74.100.123) on: Sat Dec 29 23:19:50 EST 2001
  
  Bad lyrics -> Target lyrisict, producer, director. They are expecting something for which the music director should score, so it's cleanly not *just* with the MD.
  
  But a question here is, Do Tamil movie/music audiences have this sort of masala attitudes? Remember the case of "Choli ke peeche kya hai" where the film makers were sued for horrible lyrics, maybe TFM can come up with some sort of consortium and punish everyone responsible.
  
  To note, TamilNadu always took special attention to address the Tamil issue (for example, keeping Tamil as the main course till graduation/12/whatever). If they have that much concern, why can't they review the lyrics and voice their opinion.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 30 02:37:06 EST 2001
  
  Things will only change when tamils take a certain pride and regard for their language and how it is being exploited for commercial purposes...Hindi has gone to the dogs a long time ago. Just changing city names from Bombay/Mumbai, Madras/Chennai is no indication of tamizh pattru. It is merely a cosmetic assertion of ethnic self-esteem. It is the Tamils who are primarily responsible for the corruption of tamil (by the guillible and "summa, paravaillai" kind of patronising of all sorts of junk that passes a music/poetry/singing/cultural dissemination). Why look elsewhere to transfer the blame??
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 30 02:42:15 EST 2001
  
  Calling Subbudu a "nai" is a good symptom of this pervasive careless attitude. At least the man has the gumption to point out (like it or not) how low tamil music has dipped... and how much further is can go in the name of kasethan kadavulada mentality.
  
  
• From: siva (@ 195.93.34.177) on: Sun Dec 30 05:32:35 EST 2001
  
  Paarpanai thavira vera yaarum nalla isaiyai thanthal antha kizhattu naayaal poruthukka mudiyaathu-
  when did IR,HJ all become brahmins?
  
  
• From: Vijay (@ 12.74.120.226) on: Sun Dec 30 12:24:32 EST 2001
  
  "Nai" "Paarpanai" nice introduction to the world of newtfmpage.com. When did people started hurting others feelings.
  
  ****** Admins ******** .....?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 30 14:09:09 EST 2001
  
  It is more than hurting others feelings...It is called BIGOTRY! Castesim raises its ugly head again - and that is nauseating!!
  
  
• From: kik (@ 207.0.105.129) on: Mon Dec 31 22:47:28 EST 2001
  
  GR: athu neththu raaththiri amma illa - neththu raaththiri yammaa. yammaavukkum ammavukkum difference ennannu kekkaama iruntha sari:-)
  
  Happy New Year!
  
  
• From: mani (@ 165.21.83.212) on: Tue Jan 1 01:27:47 EST 2002
  
  siva siva....
  how looooowww an ARR fan(or IR hater) can go....
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.82.147) on: Tue Jan 1 06:28:57 EST 2002
  
  Hindi has gone to the dogs a long time ago.
  
  Naaz, a correction - Hindi IN FILMS has gone to the dogs.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Jan 1 23:46:38 EST 2002
  
  AVR-
  
  Don't underestimated the effect of "film" Hindi (or Tamil.) Pop-culture is insidious in its workings. My cousins/relatives in India talk like they are in some ad commercials - full of lispy pronunciations and anglicised utterances - all in Hindi! So, Hindi has not just gone to the dogs - it has gone to places beyond comprehension.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Wed Jan 2 00:41:31 EST 2002
  
  kik, ok. let it be yamma. what about the mukals and munahals in that song? There were plenty of Mukal Munahal songs released in that period. (Even Pon Meni Uruhuthey). I wonder why Subbudu didn't cover those songs.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Jan 2 10:10:49 EST 2002
  
  Ragavan - subbudu need not cover those songs - they are already "naked" (asingam asingam :-))
  
  
• From: Sombu Nilagireesar (@ 64.105.35.163) on: Wed Jan 2 13:46:00 EST 2002
  
  That is the naked truth :)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 67.162.124.29) on: Wed Jan 2 23:12:44 EST 2002
  
  Read VMs reply to Subbudu in this weeks kumudam
  http://www.kumudam.com/kumudam/kweekly/pg7.html
  
  In this he has also mentioned how these days directors force MDs to compose "similar" to some of the western mp3 samples..
  
  
• From: kik (@ 207.0.105.134) on: Wed Jan 2 23:57:11 EST 2002
  
  VM perukkethathu pOla abaththamaa oru response ezhithirukkaar. Rhetorickkum oru school paiyyanin tharam thaan.
  The (not so) subtle insults:
  - When he says 'ungal vayasukku vanakkam' he's really saying you're too old to get it.
  - Next, december matham is when you listen to music : reference to the december (mostly carnatic) music season.
  
  Blame it on everybody but me and my lack of talent:
  - Globalization, economic necessity etc.
  - directors ask for copies of hit foreign songs.
  - this is what youngsters like.
  - no one asks for carnatic ragas.
  
  Then an isolated example where he tried to deliver:
  - I don't believe this example given what else he's said in this article. May be it's an afterthought? After all, unless Shankar confirms this who's to know if it's true?
  - Even assuming it's true, I don't think it's a great example of poetry. The similes are pedestrian. Perhaps, VM imagines that this is the hallmark of great poetry.
  
  More gratuitous insults to subbudu & Asokamithran...leading to the take away from this article: 'your conclusion is not mutrilum sari'.
  
  What else can one expect from a lyricist with limited talent?
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Jan 3 00:01:55 EST 2002
  
  ok! agreed(or assumed) that MD and lyricists are not responsible. So does it prove that the acquisition is worthless? It is infact strongly enhanced. The person for the blame is of lesser important than to the actual content, which is subbudu's claim, the degradation of Music in TFMs.
  
  Dimandu's is a pure hot potato behaviour a pure crap of escapism from, nothing less.
  
  hey! i just want to know whether PunnagavaraLi and Pullaanguzhal are related? gokka makka typical diamandu speech. i wonder whether diamandu will learn speaking in "Thamizh", like others of his clan (e-g) pazhanibharathi, thaamarai. even mu.metha speaks in simple language, may be textual but no such unnecessary punnagavaraaLi punnaakku stuff. let him drop these "pasai isai" stuff while speaking or else he may invite adi from "visai" (switched) thatttiya "kasai"(savukku) and thereby burning his "thasai"(flesh).
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.254) on: Thu Jan 3 10:38:23 EST 2002
  
  Kupps,
  
  I guess you are taking things in the absolute sense.He doesn't say in a unqualified manner that the MDs and lyricists are not responsible.He just mentions that there are bound to be situations when a better creative work from him can get degraded to "Uppu karuvaadu".Besides, the core of his point is distinguish and respect the difference between "Vedikkai paadalgal" and "Ilakkiya paadalgal" and then classify and criticize accordingly for what it was intended to be.
  
  "i wonder whether diamandu will learn speaking in "Thamizh", like others of his clan (e-g) pazhanibharathi, thaamarai. even mu.metha speaks in simple language,"
  
  What is wrong in V.Muthu having his own style(whatever he feels comfortable) of expressing his opinions?I get the feeling you are biased against him(maybe you have a valid reason for that).To me he seems to be the person trying to see what the real problem is and he doesn't seem like a escapist(based on what he said here).
  
  "he may invite adi from "visai" (switched) thatttiya "kasai"(savukku) and thereby burning his "thasai"(flesh). "
  
  That was interesting choice of words with nice rhythm.Looks like he needs to beef up his security.:)
  
  All,IMO.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Jan 3 11:31:53 EST 2002
  
  well trend,
  
  i should have put it as ok! agreed(or assumed) that MD and lyricists are not solely responsible.
  
  My point was not at all sarcastic and blaming MDs/Lyricists alone for this degradation.
  
  yeah! i understand that he is pointing out that those kind of songs are "vaedikkai paadalgaL" and one should not try to analyse "mala mala marudha mala" or "laalakku dol dappi ma". You have examples like "aiyya saami aavoji saami" from 50s-60s itself. All agreed and accepted. But the point, i think, subbudu was making that, that these kinds of "vaedikkai paadalgaL" only have "malindhu-fied" in tfm and one could see, say, more than 60-65%(my guess statistics) of songs of these days fall under only "vaedikkai paadalgaL" whereas the situation could have been better.
  
  Again one cannot fully blame one of the four makers MD-Lyricsist-Producer-Director. But, i guess all should take responsibility of success and/or failure of their effort. Its not good if you blame it on others being one of the maker. This is what i said escapism.
  
  Also, even for a thagaradabba tune the lyrics can be better and viceversa. "aiyya saami aavoji saami" has lesser lyrical value but good tune value. if vm feels the tune is changed from a "poetic tune" to a "rustic tune" still he can write a good lyric, better than "uppu karuvaadu" but did he. oh! yeah! director wanted him to write only uppu karuvaadu.
  
  hey! who is there playing that nonsense song from the radio.....mmmmm...im saying, no, put of that song "thangamae thamizhukkillai thattuppaadu".
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.254) on: Thu Jan 3 11:57:25 EST 2002
  
  Kupps,
  
  "more than 60-65%(my guess statistics) of songs of these days fall under only "vaedikkai paadalgaL" whereas the situation could have been better."
  
  I agree with you.This is surely a Sorry scenario.My feeling is Subbudu always wants to criticize but is afraid to see what is the root cause of the problem and he also discounts good trends happening or evolving.
  
  "if vm feels the tune is changed from a "poetic tune" to a "rustic tune" still he can write a good lyric, better than "uppu karuvaadu" but did he."
  
  That's a subjective opinion.We don't know exactly what Shankar asked him to change his earlier work into.When it comes to peppy numbers I think Shankar doesn't care about subtlety.
  
  ""aiyya saami aavoji saami" has lesser lyrical value but good tune value. "
  
  I don't know if many people will agree with you on that.They may consider "Mala mala"(without lyrics) to be a better tune.
  
  I think we should be open-minded enough as to listen to "aiyya saami aavoji saami" and "Thamizhukkum amudhu endru paer" consecutively and enjoy both the songs on their merit irrespective of the other song.
  
  All,IMO
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Jan 3 13:36:41 EST 2002
  
  What are the good trends happening in TFM these days, Trend? What is the "evolution" that Subbudu is preventing or discounting? I am curious to know...I am sure you can enlighten me.
  
  

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