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Is Rahman Village, Carnatic and Background Musically Challenged?

Topic started by Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.73.97) on Sun Oct 29 01:31:55 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A great music director should be known for his/her trick on all trades when it comes to music. But AR Rahman is good only in recording crystal clear music. As far other areas are concerned he had failed miserably. Listen to all his village oriented songs same type of digital music. Even Deva and SAR do better job than him. What about BGM he plays the songs repeatedly. Deva does a better job atleast copying from Titanic or BraveHeart. What happened to songs based out of Raagas there also he lacks knowledge. What about his singing style man. Drs recommend his "Vandemataram" to clear Constibation than bringing out patriotism.

Discuss this fake, self promoting and copying star and remove his masquerade.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.194) on: Thu Nov 2 10:56:53 EST 2000
  
  Dorai,
  I didn't start any personal attacks, unless questioning someone's preference masquerading as fact is an attack. You got embarrassed by someone poking holes in your logic. If you're upset, at least aim your guns at the right target. And your literally bold summation is the problem with most of the posts here, this thread's theme has nothing whatsoever to do with Ilayaraja. There's no fun in debating when you don't even know the topic of contention.
  
  Perhaps, now is a good time to put this farce of a thread out of its misery.
  
  
• From: Nalla idha paarunga (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Thu Nov 2 12:36:40 EST 2000
  
  (Bose, by the way is a brand name, they make every level of system in Bose, from cheap $40 systems to $4000, so just saying Bose doesn't register any idea of the system.)
  
  Comeon, Udhaya, don't fool around.
  
  Hi All,
  
  Check with Music system's at Bose's site:
  
  http://www.bose.com/home_audio/
  
  None of their music systems cost less than $499.
  
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Thu Nov 2 12:39:55 EST 2000
  
  Udaya,
  What is wrong is comparing IR with ARR on their carnatic music based compostions. I think the topic is whether ARR is upto the Mark on Carnatic, Folk and other style of compositions and whether any one has challanged him???. Whats wrong in comparing his work with other MDs. IMHO, it is relevant to the topic.
  
  I did not mean you specifically on "personal attack" style of discussion. It was more on other so called "Senior TFM" members out here.
  
  Chandy,
  I think the answer is too obviuous, when we talk about ARR's work the best challange has always come from IR's past work. I don't see anything wrong in comparing ARR's present work with IR's work in 1980's. When IR came to the TFM scene, he was constantly compared with MSV and IR has never failed in people's expectations in terms of bring out a brilliant composition that even outshined MSV or KVM's work. Let me give you some example of IR's contemoporary work in 80's from his work in "Payanangal Mudivathilai" and "Kadahal Oviyam" (Movie) and KVM's Sankarabharanam. Though I still rate KVM's work in Sankarabharanam to be very high and unique, I consider IR's work in these movies to be not very different from KVM's. All these compositions are Legends for both of them. The question is can you tell me one such movie of ARR which falls into this class which will be remembered for ever as a Legend. The answer is a BIG NO. So, lets move on.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Nov 2 13:10:23 EST 2000
  
  Gangaaa enga irukkai nee?
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 2 13:16:24 EST 2000
  
  Talking about classical music, oldies will tell
  G.Ramanathans or MKT's stuff is by far superiror than what others did,
  This is a never-ending argument.
  
  1.How many opportunities arr got to compose for real classical movies in the past 5 years.
  2. What ever he got he did it pretty well.
  enavale, narumugaye, minsara kanna are few samples. Also some of his other numbers were based on ragas like mand, dharmavathi, kapi , mohanam, sivarajani etc.
  
  I really don’t know what people are looking for …how do you evaluate the "classical" stuff in a song...singing in hamsanandhi in rain or crying in subbhapanthuvarali, or romancing in kalyani ….. or sitting on stage with a mirudangam, a gattam and lipsyncing for Nattai
  
  Seriously, Dorai can you tell what special you see /hear in the movies you have mentioned,
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 131.230.25.38) on: Thu Nov 2 13:27:38 EST 2000
  
  Dorai :
  
  Please dont drag me into the IR-ARR debates. I'm tired of them.
  
  Please read the theme of the thread and Bhagavathar's note on it. IT does NOT say whether any one has challanged him??? . He clearly says . But AR Rahman is good only in recording crystal clear music. As far other areas are concerned he had failed miserably. Listen to all his village oriented songs same type of digital music .
  
  According to my simple common interpretation, "Is Rahman ... musically challenged?" simply means a critical assessment of his village, carnatic, background music. It does not mean a comparative analysis with other MDs.
  
  If you are very keen on misinterpretating the theme, justifying the IR-ARR fights and go on with another endless muddle, please move on.
  
  All those Bose-techno specialists - I have the same request for you. Please stick to theme of this thread and dont get into personal digs and attacks.
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.194) on: Thu Nov 2 13:30:07 EST 2000
  
  Dorai,
  When I fool around it will be evident. Just namedropping BOSE doesn't say anything about the system or the musical experience derived from it, this was my point. But, let's drop that.
  
  At least now, you're coming to the theme of the thread when you say, "I think the topic is whether ARR is upto the Mark on Carnatic, Folk and other style of compositions." But when you go on to say you prefer, KVM, IR to ARR. You are still stating your preference, not prooving that ARR is Carnatic music-challenged. Get it? (I'm just asserting my question now, not talking down to you or insulting you as you may be prone to assume.)
  
  To proove that ARR is Carnatic musically challenged, show me the details of where the inadequacy in the rendering of the raagam happens? where is the jarring deviation within the song? where's the abaswaram?
  
  If you are not well-versed in Carnatic music, fine, pick a folk song I had listed earlier in my post and show me how he's inadequate in that genre.
  
  To just say, "A is not like B, so A sucks", is not debating. That is just stating your preference. Stating your preference is fine, but it has nothing to do with this thread which makes accusations that haven't yet been backed up with analysis or facts.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 131.230.25.38) on: Thu Nov 2 13:32:42 EST 2000
  
  I'd like to add a few more songs to ARR's classical song list of fan
  
  Kannodu kaambadhellam thalaiva
  Nila kaaigiradhu
  Sowkiyama kanne
  Thenndai mei theendai
  Eshawar allah
  
  Most albums of ARR have atleast one classical-based number!!
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 2 13:41:08 EST 2000
  
  chandy and others., a serious Question:
  what do you look for in a song to term it as a carnatic based. ?
  
  
  
• From: budhdhan (@ 207.160.161.170) on: Thu Nov 2 13:51:16 EST 2000
  
  You can't go through the same process over and over again and expect to see a different result each time. naai vaala nimirththa mudiyaadhu. This is another thread for generalising about IR vs. ARR and choosing one as "vastly superior". No end to this!
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.194) on: Thu Nov 2 14:31:14 EST 2000
  
  fan,
  Let me attempt a definition as a layman. To term a song as a Carnatic song it should have the following:
  1) It should be faithful to the parameters of a certain Carnatic raagam or raagams.
  The composer’s liberty with interpretation is debatable by those with Carnatic music knowledge.
  
  2) The use of traditional Carnatic instruments.
  Although, ARR’s novel use of Sax in “Sowkkiyamaa” in place of naadhaswaram was fresh, let’s stick to songs that use traditional south Indian instruments.
  
  3) No Western interludes or fusion of other genres in the song.
  For example: IR’s “Azhagae azhagu”, a song that starts out mellow like a ghazal goes into Jazz instrumental interludes. This is just an example of a cross-genre song, guys, don’t go misreading it as an insult. I happen to like this song.
  
  Let me know if this definition fits the bill. Let’s all try and define it better. If this goes beyond the realms of this thread, this maybe worthy of another separate thread.
  
  
• From: Para Vetti (@ 206.222.96.195) on: Thu Nov 2 14:35:40 EST 2000
  
  
  hmmm...
  Looks like the 'Sandai' is coming to an end...
  What channel is WWF on, BTW... (Need to keep myself entertained you see)
  
  Ulaga Vetti
  
  
• From: Ganga (@ 129.253.193.7) on: Thu Nov 2 14:42:44 EST 2000
  
  As I have to exchange some emotional experiences with swamiji, will you guys stop making noise here? You guys make more noise than the two big noisemakers of TamilNadu, namely IR and ARR.
  
  Swaamiji, unless you give me your poorvaasrama name, I am not going to tell you my whereabouts!
  (swaamiyaar nnaa joLLu nnu theriyum. aanaa neer koodavE loLLu pidicha saamiyaar)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Thu Nov 2 14:58:43 EST 2000
  
  fan,
  
  why only oldies? youngies like me (nejamAppA nambu; i am still in my twenties :-)) ) also believe and will fight to death (ithu chummA ok :-) ) to prove that when it comes to cinematizing carnatic music without losing its basic, there is no one to beat g. rAmanAthan. was he a genius or what!
  
  
• From: hohoho (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Thu Nov 2 15:04:34 EST 2000
  
  ayyE, idhu enna pudhu kadhai. g.ramanthan enga vandharu indha kuzhaiyadi sandailE. Yov hihi, nee anAlum naradhar velai panradhulE kingu, amam!
  
  
• From: Siththan (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Thu Nov 2 15:17:35 EST 2000
  
  Yov IR fans,
  
  IRoda songs based on carnatic music list evlo perusu. Adhai ungalalE list pannamudiyama?
  
  Edhukku inga vandhu anavasiyama ezudhi time waste pannureenga! Pongayya, poi velaiya parunga!
  
  
• From: Madhaya (@ 63.22.120.98) on: Thu Nov 2 15:35:59 EST 2000
  
  Long live ARR!
  
  
• From: IR thondan (@ 208.154.130.13) on: Thu Nov 2 16:07:05 EST 2000
  
  Madaya oh.. sorry, Madhaya
  
  Unakku mattum dhaan solla theriyuma?
  
  IRukku jE! IR naamam vaazhga!
  
  
• From: Polappathavan (@ 206.222.96.195) on: Thu Nov 2 16:16:07 EST 2000
  
  
  
  Madhaya, IR Thondan,....
  
  Soooooooper, Dhoool parakkattum... Why don't we all get together somewhere (Las Vegas would be perfect), form two groups and chant IRukku Jai and ARRukku Jai (Veecharuvals and hockey sticks are most welcome)
  We can even invite IR and ARR for a WWF cage match, IR can wreck his giutar on ARR's head and ARR can wreck his Synth on IR's. That would be totally cool... What say?
  
  Velai Vetti Illathavan.
  
  
  
  

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