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Pudhumaiyaana Vaarthaigal/Prayogangal

Topic started by pg (@ igw2.merck.com) on Fri Sep 5 10:20:22 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Mon Jun 29 13:16:34 EDT 1998
  
  closing italics
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ 206.246.233.2) on: Mon Jun 29 15:10:31 EDT 1998
  
  Pags:
  Thank you. I think you've clarified all the issues I was wrestling with in correctly defining pudhukkavidhai. Let me recap:
  
  1. pudhukkavidhai does not conform to the yAppilakkaNam of marabukkavidhaigaL.
  2. It is not tightly bound by edhugai, mOnai as marabukkavidhai is, but these are optional accessories which add value to a pudhukkavidhai.
  3. Most of the TFM lyrics today which are "loosely referred to" as pudhukkavidhai by the likes of vairamuththu are actually isaippAdalgaL with pudhukkavidhai veechchugaL, and therefore will conform to meter etc. to be set to music.
  I hope I got everything straight.
  
  Just a thought: if pudhukkavidhai is indeed poetic prose (roughly), then all those vasanangaL with original thinking, passion, edhugai, mOnai and good thamizh by aNNAdurai and karuNAnidhi could be very easily modified into pudhukkavidhai format?!
  
  Sorry for this digression.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jun 29 15:30:07 EDT 1998
  
  A few more additions to what is pudhukavidhai. Pudhukavidhai celebrates the word in relief from its rhyming duties. Some alliteration is there to give rhythm to the song but IMO pudhukavidhai is about letting the language breathe. Letting each word take center stage. To use line breaks so that the reader doesn't know how the began thought or phrase will end. Good exponents of the form, like Abdhul Rehamaan and early Mu.Mehtha, will have some kind of surprise at the turn of the phrase. Also, imagery and analogy totally rule pudhukavidhai because the poetic arena is blown wide open.
  Unfortunately, since the form is so easy to use, it gets abused by many people (including myself) who don't understand how to use it. To write prose and break it down into three to four words per line is NOT pudhukavidhai. Every word has to count
  in this format. Word choice is CRUCIAL for freshness in the poem. And if language itself is not reinvented to some level where a word usually used in a different connotation is given a new meaning, then pudhukavidhai hasn't been utilized properly.
  
  
• From: Bharat (@ isdbsd1-inet.ci.mil.wi.us) on: Mon Jun 29 17:01:59 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya:
  
  From your definition, I don't see how it's possible to have pudhukavidhai as TFM lyrics, unless the lines are sung/spoken Agnisaatchi-style. Normally, TFM lyrics have sets of at least two lines with the same syllable-count to make it easy on the ears. Take for instance your posting on the Vairamuthu patti-manRam page. Is that a pudhukavidhai? If so, don't such "lyrics" have to be bastardized to conform to TFM standards? And would those be what Kanchana terms isaippaadalgaL?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jun 29 17:17:47 EDT 1998
  
  There are some pudhukavithai analogies in modern TFM lyrics, but yes, you are correct in deducing that TFM lyrics aren't as free as pudhukavidhai should be. I wouldn't categorize TFM lyrics as pudhukavidhai, they are isaippaadalgal indeed. Agnisaatchi was an exception.
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Mon Jun 29 18:05:05 EDT 1998
  
  kanchana
  
  Your recap is precise. About those CNA and Mu.Ka vasanangaL, I would say that they already have the vEEchchugaL to some extent, IMO.
  
  Ravi, sorry about this unavoidable digression.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jun 29 18:14:22 EDT 1998
  
  Okay, let me bring the thread back to its original intent.
  There is a new song which utilizes magazines and newspaper names to praise the lover. It's pretty fun. It starts, "Kumudham pol vandha kumariyae mugam kungumamaich chivandhadhennavo". In that song the following expression baffles me:
  en manaveettil nee endrum mavusaabhi
  
  Maybe it is mabhusaabhi, either way, what does this mean? Is this a Moghul word like "Sulthaan" or is it Thamizh?
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Mon Jun 29 18:16:55 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya
  
  Is that word by any chance ...saavi? I have heard that song and thought it so.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jun 29 18:30:04 EDT 1998
  
  saavi would make sense because there was a magazine by that name, but still, what is "mavu" or "mabhu" before that word? Is he saying "mana saavi" as in idhayathin thiravukoal? That seems to be quite a stretch from how it sounded.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Jun 30 15:17:41 EDT 1998
  
  I was listening to the old SPB-MSV tune "Idhu raaja gopura dheepam agal vilakkalla". In it there are some lines that allude to an older literary expression,
  thennampaalai senniravaazhai
  siriyavan sonnaen sonnavan aezhai
  who is the "sonnavan aezhai" referring to? Kamban?
  
  
• From: Gokul (@ pgokul.netpath.net) on: Wed Jul 1 23:59:11 EDT 1998
  
  I Was listening to "Netru IllAdha MAtram EnnaDhu?"
  from PudhiyA MuGam (ARR's Mastery over Orchestration.. Man!)
  
  The Lines go like this,
  
  "KaviDhai Variyin Suvai Artham Puriyum Varai..
  GanGai Neerin Suvai KaDalil Serum Varai.
  
  KAthal SuvaiOndru thAne KAtru Veesum Varai.."
  
  I dont get this..
  how KAthalin Suvai is limited to KaTtru..
  
  
• From: Bharat (@ isdbsd1-inet.ci.mil.wi.us) on: Thu Jul 2 09:44:54 EDT 1998
  
  Gokul:
  
  The mystery of a line of poetry is only till its meaning is comprehended. The sweetness (?!!) of gangai neer lasts only till its confluence with the sea. The transient nature of these is contrasted with the immortality of Kaadhal, whose "taste" lasts an eternity. Kaatru veesum varai refers to the timelessness of it all.
  
  IMO, these are pretty decent lyrics by VM.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-tc043.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 2 10:44:33 EDT 1998
  
  Pags, Udhaya:
  Thanks for that good discussion on pudhukkavidhai in response to my questions. Wish we could see some more executions of the same in TFM as in agnisAtchi.
  
  (Udhaya, don't know that literary expression or its creator, sorry.)
  
  Gokul:
  Good to see you again! I've been interpreting those lines as "kavidhai varigaLin suvaikkum, gangai neerin suvaikkum mudivu uNdu; kAdhalin suvai (ulagam uLLa varai) kAtRu eppadi azhivillAdhadhO adhu pOl mudivE illAdhadhu." Does that make sense?
  
  BTW, I don't completely agree with the thought kavidhai variyin suvai arththam puriyum varai. Or, is VM referring to today's TFM lyrics only? :-)
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-tc043.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 2 10:50:14 EDT 1998
  
  Oops, Bharat, didn't see your posting since I didn't reload. Sorry for being repetitious. Agree with you that is one of VM's better songs!
  
  
• From: Gokul (@ pgokul.netpath.net) on: Thu Jul 2 23:34:43 EDT 1998
  
  K & B
  
  Thanks for the Explanation. I had not thought
  of "KAtru Veesum Varai" as timelessness. That
  is the reason I was wondering.
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-20.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jul 3 12:06:01 EDT 1998
  
  In 'thereadhu,silaiedhu'song(paasam)Kannadasan writes
  
  ondredhu irandedhu moondrumedhu
  ovvondrum poiyaaga maarumpodhu
  
  What he means by the above lines??
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ synergy.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Jul 3 20:42:51 EDT 1998
  
  Ramki:
  
  Those are lines written very aptly for the situation
  faced by the character who sings the song. In
  the movie, 'paasam', the heroine (S.Devi) is
  in love with a robber (MGR). He starts resisting
  her love because his life itself is uncertain;
  any time he could end up in prison for many many
  years and so he doesn't want to spoil her life
  by marrying her. The heroine sings the song when she
  loses hope of marrying him.
  
  ondrEdhu: The hero is ruled out for her
  iraNdEdhu: So, their union in marriage is ruled out
  moondrumEdhu: Hence, forming a lovable family
  is ruled out; moondru denotes a kid.
  
  Originally, the lovers did have hope for a happy union,
  but he now says that's not possible, and now she
  has lost hope. The second line basically denotes that:
  ovvondrum poyyaaga maaRum pOdhu.
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-04.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sat Jul 4 10:33:12 EDT 1998
  
  SK thanks a lot for the explanation. Does MGR accepts the proposal at the end of the song?The song turns into a happy tone towards the end??"theredhu silaiedhu thriunaal edhu deivampol manidharellaam maarum podhu'
  
  One more clarification required:
  
  In odum megangalae(aayirathil oruvan)Vaali writes
  'naadalum vannamayil kaaviyathail naan thalaivan'
  
  first 2 wordskkum kadaisi 3 wordskkum sambandhamae illae illaiya?
  
  
• From: RV (@ 1cust140.tnt1.scl1.da.uu.net) on: Sat Jul 4 14:15:14 EDT 1998
  
  Nadalum Vanna Mayil is Jayalalitha, the heroine, a princess in the movie. She is writing a Kaviyam in her heart. In that Kaviyam, she wants MGR as the thalaivan or the hero. The next line says,
  "Naattilulla Adimaigalil Aayiratthil Naan Oruvan" - which is the reality. MGR is one among the several slaves in the movie.
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-28.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Sun Jul 5 01:06:18 EDT 1998
  
  Thanks for the clarification RV.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ ) on: Wed Jun 9 15:09:11 EDT 1999
  
  I recently discovered this IR classic. I believe VM is the lyricist, if not please correct me. The song is "Sangaththil Paadaatha Kavidhai". There are many peculiar expressions in this song:
  "kai endrae sengaanthazh malargalai
  nee sonnaal naan nambavoa?"
  
  what are sengaanthazh malargal can someone give the English name for this flower? Anyway, I thought that was a marvelous use of metaphor by the lyricist.
  
  Later in the song another phrase is intriguing:
  "andhip poar kaanaatha ilamai" what is the poet talking about here, can someone explain?
  
  I also want to share another line in the song that is so full of poetic charm:
  "sindhiththaen sendhoora idhazhgalil
  sindhith thaen paaygindra uravai"
  
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Wed Jun 9 15:30:49 EDT 1999
  
  udhayA,
  
  andhip pOr kANAdha iLamai? - don't tell me you don't understand this line. "get a life". [that is the meaning :-) ] the meaning is "andhi vELayil seyyum pOraik kANAdha (anubavikkAdha) iLamai". idhukku mEl ingE ezhudhinAl thuraththi anuppap paduvEn. hence stopping here. (have you ever listened to Atlanta Rhythm Section? they have a beautiful song called imaginary lover. just remembered!)
  
  senkAnthaL pU is, if i remember correctly, a pU with song slender white petals. usually this pU is used as a uvamai (simile) for viralgaL. our man was probably singing about a Lilliput :-))
  
  sindhiththEn sendhUra idhazhgaLil
  sindhith thEn pAyginRa uRavai
  :-))))))
  
  This line is very much vAli-ish. FreudE sharaNam :-))
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jun 9 17:28:22 EDT 1999
  
  aruL,
  Thanks for the explanation. "Andhip poar" I would have never in a million years guessed that poar would be used to denote physical love, hmmm. Different strokes indeed.
  
  
• From: bb (@ inehou-pxy04.compaq.com) on: Wed Jun 9 17:43:12 EDT 1999
  
  OTLlE saranam:-)))))))
  otl cegkAntaL cegkAntaL red species of malabar glory-lily, m. cl., gloriosa superba
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Thu Jun 10 11:23:57 EDT 1999
  
  bb,
  
  thanks. (segappu pachcha veLLa... same difference :-)) ) i can't believe i missed the prefix semmai in segkAntaL :-(
  
  

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