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Kannadasanin padaippugal

Topic started by Ramki (@ proxy7.cyberway.com.sg) on Sat Jun 21 00:14:12 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: ss (@ 205-222-61.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Jul 15 19:22:45 EDT 1998
  
  I didnt say that i always see the wrong side of women rather i said i always see the wrong side of kannadasan songs.
  As usual one can always support any action under the following
  "It was situation that forced me"
  "Ellam en neram", "Ellam thalaividhi"
  No wonder, it was applied to Kannadasan's songs also.
  Only wondering why it is not applicable to others also?
  When kannadasan writes something the situation demands , when other write dub them as
  "Koolikku maaradippavarkal"
  Probably I may never understand this logic
  Anyway Thanks Manisekaran .
  
  
  
  
• From: ss (@ 205-222-61.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Jul 15 19:38:24 EDT 1998
  
  If all are situation demanded, then we cannot talk about anything am i right?
  Each and everything is situation demanded. I am not at all bothered about Kannadasan's personnal opinion about women and i have no right to talk about that. What i can talk is how he portrays them in the movie songs.I think i am understanding the logic here.
  If someone tomorrow says vaali wrote
  "Sakkara valli kilangu" song bcos the situation demanded i dont think i can say a word after that.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: ss (@ 171-186-39.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Jul 15 20:18:37 EDT 1998
  
  "Bhoojiyathil... " song may make sense if you believe in GOD.
  What if one doesnt believe in GOD? He may term that as rubbish.
  Well, my friend says "well we are in the era of human cloning and if Kannadasan were alive he would have written
  "Chicagovil irunthukondu Human cloning seivan
  oruvan"
  "Avanai purinthu kondal avan thaan iraivan"
  Who knows?
  Luckily they didnt include this song in any syllabus and created contoversy.
  Thanks
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ bat-49-138.tm.net.my) on: Wed Jul 15 23:57:15 EDT 1998
  
  SS
  Any poet can write on any topic, but it depends on who writes best. I am quite open about the talents of many poets in the cine field. If you had followed several other discussions over a period of time you would have learnt of many other poets of capacity. It is most unfortunate that they could not shine-may be owing to "thalaivithi"
  It is again true that almost all cine songs are situation-warranted. It depends on who writes best for a given situation. I am not sure how Kannadasan would fare in the midst of the existing cine environment, had he been alive today. But if you go back to history of cine field you would realise that for every time ther had been the greatest. Kannadasan was the greatest during his own time. Just to quote a few:
  
  1. At the time when MGR and Kannadasan were not in talking terms, he was tried to use Vali for the songs in Ayirathil Oruvan. But Vali was not up to the mark. So MGR forgot the difference he had with Kannadasan and summoned him to write the songs. That is how he ended in writing the songs for this film.
  
  2. Sridar was one of the best directors. In fact he was the first director to get the cameramen, lightmen and sound engineers to work dirtectly under the direction of the director. He had used several poets to write songs. Once he saw the great talents of Kannadasan, he made it a point to release all his films with Kannadasan's songs. He did not mind waiting for months for Kannadasan to give the songs. Later, when MGR and Kannadasan had misunderstanding, Sridar used MGR in Urimaikkural. He used Vali to write the songs. But quietly, he got Kannadasan to write Vizhiye kathai Ezhuthu. MGR read the lyrics and asked for the identity of the poet. Sridar admitted it was the work of Kannadasan. MGR told Sridar to go ahead and use Kannadasan openly.
  
  4. Others who made it a point never to miss Kannadasan were MM Sinnappa Devar, Lena Chettiyar, B.R. Bantulu, Hindu Rangarajan, KS Gobalakrishnan, A.P. Nagarajan etc.
  
  5. Two poets seldom see things in the same way. Thani oruvanukku unavillai enil jagathinai azhippom was one poets lamentation while another said thani oruvanukku unavillai enil aatchiyai maatruvom- at least to this effect. The same goes to cine song situation. I still maintain that cine songs are based on situations, and they do not always reflect the thoughts of poets. In one song Kannadasan wries Mamithan marivittaan and in another he writes manithan maaravillai. In one film he writes
  
  "aayiram penmai malarattume aayiram kangal rasikkattume, oruthiyin nenjam oruvanukkendre sol sol sol thozhi sol sol sol!" In the same film he writes
  
  "Kangale Kangale Kaathal seivathai vittuvidungal
  pengale pengale vaalibarai konjam vaazhavidungal..
  vanjaga mangai koonthalil irukkum
  malarukku inmel Manam vendam
  nanriyai marantha paavaiyar inimel yarukkum maalai vidavendam..."
  Therefor which is Kannadasan's thought? The first or the second? This is the reason as to why I do not agree that all are hiw own thoughts. They are situation warranted. His original thoughts are in his collection of poems-Kannadasan kavithaikal. Many cinema songs are again based on his experiences. But they have to be understood from his other statements, writings etc.
  
  6. As I mentioned earlier Kannadasan was the best during his own lifetime, as openly admitted by all the living poets of his day. Kannadasan has corrected the songs of many poets. As the cine situation has changed now I do not wish to use suppositions now, though I quietly maintain my own opinion. I have seen the works of the poets of those days and those of today. May be I am able to compare and contrast. And I do not again believe in imposing my opinions on others. I must respect the opinions of each and everyone. Honestly I appreciate your opinions.
  
  Vaazhvom! Valarvom! Valam Peruvom!
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-09.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Thu Jul 16 00:09:20 EDT 1998
  
  Manisekaran in 'ondru engal jaadhiye'song Kannadasan writes
  
  vellai manidhan viyarvaiyum
  karuppu manidhan kanneerum
  
  Does he means that only vellai manidhan sindhified viyarvai and all karuppu manidhan sindhified kannneer??
  
  
• From: ss (@ 168-128-245.ipt.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 16 01:20:30 EDT 1998
  
  Thanks Manisekaran . Just want to tell you my arguments were not to antogonize or irritate you. Just it is the way i think.
  Still i have many questions but i prefer not to raise them now as it may spoil the purpose of this discussion topic.
  Thanks to all.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 204.220.169.94) on: Thu Jul 16 05:44:27 EDT 1998
  
  Ramki,
  ve-na-vukku ve-na
  ka-na- vukku ka-na?
  
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ bat-50-100.tm.net.my) on: Thu Jul 16 06:03:01 EDT 1998
  
  Ramki:
  rjay has answered your doubt. Kannadasan was talking about the equality of man, in which he brings the diametrically opposing groups together. So vellai must be followed by karuppu. This is my understanding. I do not know what he had in mind in writing the song. There is a song in Panakkara Kudumbam that was banned by All India Radio Madras station. Similarly there is another song in Dharmam Thalai Kakkum which was also banned.Can you guess the songs and the reasons behind?
  
  SS:
  You are not in any way irritating me. In fact you are irrigating the discussion. Go ahead and we shall have healthy and wealthy discussion.
  
  
• From: raja m (@ spider-tj073.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 16 09:24:35 EDT 1998
  
  Great thread. All songs mentioned in this thread, bring back memories of songs heard and forgotten ( in my case:)). I do not know much of Kannadaasan's writings/songs - my knowledge is nothing compared to many DFers), he was supposed to be an atheist then returned to religion ( arthamulla hindu madham series), I wonder if influence of his personal philosophy/convictions are reflected in his songs depending on when he wrote his songs.
  
  As discussed in this thread, the song situation plays a vital role in how the song is written and what it conveys, this may be a contradiction to what was said earlier even in the same movie. Tamil Films always had a story format where songs with different emotions were/are always present, the order of the songs varying from film to film. With so many songs being written, it is difficult to really know what Kannadasan's real influences and judgements were. If some one can comeup with more info on this, it will be great.
  
  With so many contradicting opinions being presented in various permutations and combinations, imagine the confusion in educated TFM fans :)
  
  
• From: ss (@ 172-23-62.ipt.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 16 22:28:58 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry couldnt resist.
  "Thangathiley oru kurai irunthaalum
  tharathinil kuraivathundo"
  Well, it will . 24 carat and 10 carat are not the
  same. Tharathil kuraivathundu.
  What is the logic behind these lines?
  
  
• From: ss (@ 206-227-65.ipt.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 16 23:55:11 EDT 1998
  
  This song is a kiranga vaikkum Thamizh Chathir.
  "kattodu kuzhalaada aada"
  Evarayum mayakkum thamizh chathiraattam.
  In this in one line he says
  "Paccharisi pall aada pambarathu naavaadaa"
  Kathanaayagi 18 vayathu ilamkumari.
  Kizhavikku pallaadum, kumarikkuma?
  Somebody asked this question to kannadasan himself when he came to madurai it seems. I dont know what he replied.
  Any interpretations?
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ wmu-54-199.tm.net.my) on: Fri Jul 17 06:36:19 EDT 1998
  
  SS
  Good you pointed out.
  
  As I had mentioned earlier Kannadasan has the magnanmous heart to accept weaknesses in his songs whenever they were pointed out. These are the songs that were pointed out to which he admitted the the mistakes:
  
  1. Thangathile Oru Kurai irunthaalum tharathinil kuraivathundo? Naturally there will be a kurai.
  
  2. Kattodu kuzhalaada aada.. pacharisi pallaada. How could the pacharisi pal of a young girl be so?
  
  3. Chinna Chinna ooraniyam....Maamarathu linaithanile maadappura koodukalaam koodukalil kodiyirukkum kunjukalaam pinchugalaam. M
  4. Thookkaang Kuruvikkoodu Thoongak Kandaaal Marathile
  Summa Pona Machanukku Enna Nenaippu Mansile... In this song from Vanambady no one was able to understand the meaning. Kannadasan too could not explain.
  
  5. When the song elanthapazham was released in Panama Pasama, the records containing this song sold like hot cakes. Kannadassan was the author of the song. Instead of feeling very proud of the good sales, he expressed regret that the taste (rasanai) of the Tamil fans had stooped, and that he had partly contributed to this situation. He alos made it a point not to write such songs as far as possible.
  
  5. Gangai Karai thottam, kanni Penkal Koottam, kannan Naduvinile. There was a "mayakkam" in this song. I am not able to recollect now. I am sure someone could assist me.
  
  6. Kannadasan won national award for a song from Kuzhanthaikkaka in 1968. The song is "Raman Enbathu Gangai Nathi, Allah enbathu Sinthu Nathi" or a song that goes something like this. But later the mottai thalai and muttaikkan genius Cho Ramasamy intervieved Kannadasan in Thuglak and pointed out the mistake. Kannadasan admitted the mistake, and expressed regret. This was a published confession of the error.
  
  These are some of the songs that come to my mind since you pointed out the songs that were not metophorically composed. But look at the man. Look at the greatness of Kannadasan. Unlike some poets who tend to justify their works, Kannadasan admitted his mistakes. Perhaps this humility of his has been one of the reasons as to why he has many living fans though he is no more with us. But these few songs in no way should or could undermine his contribution.
  
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ wmu-54-199.tm.net.my) on: Fri Jul 17 06:40:27 EDT 1998
  
  Song No 3
  Maamarathu Kilaithanile Madappura Koodukalaam kooduthanil kudiyurukkum kunjugalaam pinjugalaam.
  Madappura never builds nest on maamaram. This mistake was pointed out by Karunanithi and some fans. But a fan pointed out the story line of Thaayillaa Paillai and justified these lines. But it is still a mistake, and Kannadasan admitted.
  
  

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