How many IR movies were

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How many IR movies were
good, ok, poor?

Topic started by kumar (@ 148.5.30.79) on Wed Aug 13 01:19:42 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Aug 13 01:21:01 EDT 1997

Hey I was thinking of starting this once I read the comment on the 'IR best MD in India' thread. munthitteenga... :)
From: kumar (@ 148.5.30.79) on: Wed Aug 13 01:36:51 EDT 1997

Going thro Dev ManMela's (RMIM) list
I have rated (atleast tried to)
illayaraja's movie. I know i am not
fit to do this, but I do this by my personal
opinion.

Total movies in the list 601

known (to me) 282

Good 194
ok 74
poor 14

unknown (to me) 284

I any body's intrested to get list and go
thro it and rate unknown movies or change my ratings mail me. You can also include new
rating like 'great'.

My scale of rating was on my own opinion
'Amman koil kizhakale' just makes it into
good. Any my opinion may be biased to movie
also. I dont beleive in numerical metrics,
but there is general myth to say that
only his few movies were good.
From: Ravi Krishna (@ starwars.informix.com) on: Wed Aug 13 18:07:55 EDT 1997

I did this long time back ( around 1992) and found
that I rate around 130 films of IR as good. Rest
all were trash , I repeat trash. Still 130 films
is good enuf.

PS: at that time IR had scored >600 films.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Aug 13 21:44:20 EDT 1997

Gopal Prasad & CP:

Idhukkuththaanga naan solluradhu repeated-aaga:
start a serious IsaiGnaani homepage; adhil full
IR list + song names + lyrics for the good songs
+ other added commentaries ellaam kodunga.

To:Ravikrishna
See, we should not go by the number of movies, but
by the number of good songs. I simply don't
agree with comments like: "except 130 others are trash".
I am very sure that except a rare few movies,
all others will have at least one or two good numbers.
It's just that you may have missed listening to those
songs (quite probably because the movie was a
big flop and became totally unknown). Last year
I happened to see, by chance, a movie titled "Chinna Thaayi",
on video. Since I had never heard of this movie,
I also expected it to have some junk music by
IR; but there were two very good songs; one of
them was really excellent; I have forgotten the
lyrics, but the tune has stayed in my mind. (Can
someone give the list of good songs in this movie?)
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Thu Aug 14 00:33:30 EDT 1997

Songs from chinnathaayi:
kOttaya vittu vEttaikku pOgum
naan Erikkarai mEl irundhu
There are two versions of both the songs.
There is yet another song, which is decent.. some one else fill in.
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Thu Aug 14 01:03:52 EDT 1997

I agree with Sathya Keerthi. It should be based on No. of songs and not the no of movies. Moreover, if there are no songs in a movie, what do you do to that.

Ravi Krishna

Sorry to say this. I am sure you have heard only 10% of IR. Listen to atleast 50% and then comment. You are irritated when someone gives credit to Kadri and not Chaurasia, and when somebody says that 'All Hindi songs sound similar'. You say that you are not ready to argue with those people.

But your own statement is also like that. I sincerely doubt whether you were brought up in TamilNadu. If you had grown somewhere else, you would not have got a chance to listen to many unnoticed gems of IR. Please clarify.
From: Shashi (@ 137.197.35.41) on: Thu Aug 14 02:44:09 EDT 1997

To Sathiya Keerthi

I think there is an excellent P Susheela song in the movie ChinnaThayi. The song is a lullaby where the mom also tells her story. The song is in Mayamalavagowlai raga. It is " Arumbarumba saram thodutha, azhagu malar maalai idhu aaraaro...
Ofcourse as mentioned earlier the song "Naan yerikarai melirundhu ettu thesai..." is a wonderful number by Yesudas.
From: pg (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Thu Aug 14 09:57:57 EDT 1997

Add this :

I heard the music of a recent movie called Poove Sempoove which had some great songs. This movie is by Fazil and stars Mammooty. Is this a original Tamil movie or is it a dubbed movie.

Also many songs from Aathma, I Love India, VaLLi, Avathaaram, Thandhu Vitten Ennai were great but the movies bombed and the songs did not get the attention they deserve.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Aug 14 12:18:40 EDT 1997

What about songs in Kolangal and Kattumarakkaran? These two films went unnoticed. In fact, Kattumarakkaran was said to be a total flop and also people commented that the picturisation was so bad and I remember the comment in Kumudham stating that the songs were in a different track and did not tally with the movie at all.
There are 3 good songs in "Kolangal":
1)kootil chinna kokilam
2)mouna raagam mana veenai meetugindra
3)ullasa poongatre
In "Kattumarakkaran",
1)Vetri vetri endru sollum
2)akkaraiyila enga vazhkayile
3)kaththum kadaL ulle oru muththeduthu
are excellent.
I would say that IR's innumerable number of good songs went unnoticed and vanished into thin air because of some unpopular movies for which he has composed music. A movie called "Ilaya raagam" was released where the Hero & Heroine were not really up to the mark and it was a flop movie. Raja has composed 3 good songs for this movie. Why should IR compose music for such films? When ARR is so choosy and composes music only for big banners why did IR sink himself into oblivion? Why did this all happen?
This is my assumption. I think IR was forcefully cleared from the limelight by people in Tamil film world who hated to see Raja rule. So, people in the top rungs (Directors, actors etc. etc.) wanted to replace him with some other MD who will be flexible and agree with their requirements unlike Raja who was unwilling in that matter. So, while Raja was away from the market for sometime to compose music for the Symphony, ARR was introduced in Roja (a big banner film) and thus started the decline of Raja.
From: Ravi Krishna (@ starwars.informix.com) on: Thu Aug 14 14:28:04 EDT 1997

To Arvind and others:-

I am from Delhi but I have listened to more than
70% of IR works till 1990 or so. Myself and my friend circle in Delhi use to regurlarly get stock of IR's films. Of course there are some films which we were bound to miss. After 1990 I lost interest in IR as I thought he is over the hill.
So you can't say that I have listened to only
10% of IR films.
As I said in some other thread, that simple rural folk songs of TN do no appeal to me. No offence.
From: easwaran hariharan (@ amex.proxy.lucent.com) on: Thu Aug 14 17:51:03 EDT 1997

To Ravi krishna,
IR films out of 600+, I have to say most of them has atleast one good song. Saying 130+ only good, is way too much low. Regarding comparision with other MDS ( like SDB and others), it depends on own's taste and preferences. for example when I wanted to listen
hindi songs, I was recommeded couple of films
like kabhi kabhi, abhimann,and amar prem. I know that these films are rated high on RMIM. Except abhiman, other films have one or two good songs, rest of them are trash in your language. Even If I am allowed to take abhimann as SDB' good works, I think IR stands way above in most of the films. All these films have some good tunes, but interlude music is just ok. There is nothing really flashy, which will haunt you for ever. Even in an average IR songs, who can always find some music bits, which haunt you forever. I firmly believe that just a good tune is itself is not enough to sustain intrest for a long time, in this respect most of the hindi songs don't make it into my grade. Either they play the tune in the beginning and end of the song, or they play the violin in the same frequency. Though there are lot of good and
catchy rhytemic songs, most of them are ok in respect to interlude music. Another thing I find in hindi music, most of MDs don't have their own style and there are lot of mixing of sytles. I don't know whether it is good or bad, but I could not find out md from a song,until I see the cover, though this is not the case with most of TFM songs, since most of MDS stamp their style in their song.
IR has given equally good tunes and with his orchestral capacity, he stands way above anyone in the field. This is my way of seeing the things, and I do respect your opinion, since I know you are a very knowledgable person. I did read lot of your postings in RMIM. Bye now.

e.hari
From: Ravi Krishna (@ starwars.informix.com) on: Thu Aug 14 19:24:34 EDT 1997

To Eshawaran Hariharan,

Great interlude music alone is not enuf to make
a song great IMO. Old hindi songs , though never
great in interlude music , were very very good
in tunes. Listen to Madan Mohan / Lata combination. Same with MSV tunes. IR is great in interlude music but not that great in tunes. That's why I find IR songs great to listen to but not to humm.
BTW IR is the best , this theory is not held in TN by those who grew up with MSV tunes. Some of my
cousins who live in TN rate MSV higher than IR
for the same reason , superior quality of the tune. To me the basic tune of the song comes first and that's why I dislike Rahman's music.
From: Ravi Krishna (@ starwars.informix.com) on: Thu Aug 14 19:49:23 EDT 1997

To Eshwaran Hariharan,

To say that hindi MD's don't have a distinct
style is a joke. It clearly proves that you
have not listened to the works of great MD's
in Hindi. I and many hindi FM lovers can instantly make out the MD even before half of the
song is completed.
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Thu Aug 14 23:43:20 EDT 1997

Sorry Ravikrishna

I cannot accept your statement that you have listened to 70% of IR's work having stayed in Delhi. I have lived in Bombay for a couple of years and I know how many oppurtunities you get to listen to Tamil Music.

Moreover, before 1990, the advertisements, coverage and reception for Tamil movies and music was real bad. So I am sure you could not have heard more than 10-20% of IR's works.

Moreover, please do not mistake me, your name looks like that of a Telugu person. Am I right? A Telugu guy in Delhi claims to have heard 90% of IR's works before 1990. IMPOSSIBLE.
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Thu Aug 14 23:44:06 EDT 1997

Sorry Ravikrishna

I cannot accept your statement that you have listened to 70% of IR's work having stayed in Delhi. I have lived in Bombay for a couple of years and I know how many oppurtunities you get to listen to Tamil Music.

Moreover, before 1990, the advertisements, coverage and reception for Tamil movies and music was real bad. So I am sure you could not have heard more than 10-20% of IR's works.

Moreover, please do not mistake me, your name looks like that of a Telugu person. Am I right? A Telugu guy in Delhi claims to have heard 70% of IR's works before 1990. IMPOSSIBLE.
From: easwaran hariharan (@ amex.proxy.lucent.com) on: Fri Aug 15 11:53:13 EDT 1997

To ravikrishna,
I accept that my knowledge before 60's in hindi music is very limited. I started listening only 70's. I know lot of times, I got confused between RDB, Kalyanji anandji and LP songs. After 80's, it is different story, which you know very well (universally thrasy songs). Considering your remark on tunes, IR did give lot of great tunes, but I found that IR tunes are much more difficult to humm, since they are more complex. As the matter of fact, only few IR songs make into my bathroom concert.
e.hari
From: Ravi Krishna (@ starwars.informix.com) on: Fri Aug 15 12:04:48 EDT 1997

Arvind:
Your statement about me has taken IR fans to a new heights. Now they started commenting on personal
information about others also. :-)
I am a tamilian. My name is Srinivasan Ravi Krishna. Yes I agree that my last name Krishna has fooled people into believing that I am from AP.
Re: Delhi people listening to only 20% of TFM is a
joke. Do you know how many tamils live in
Delhi. More than a 12 lakhs , which is more than the population of Trichy , Madurai etc. There are lot of tamil stores were TFM are adequately stocked. Plus lot of Delhi tamils go frequently
to Madras (see the crowd in GT and TN express) and come back updated. I can say with utmost confidence that till 1988-89 I was well informed about TFM. After that I lost interest.
After the proliferation of satalite TV (Sun TV) Delhi tamils have even more accessibility to TFM.

Please refrain from passing such uninformed statements.

E.Hari:
I do agree that some of the IR songs are really tough to sing for bathroom singers like up. The same is true with old hindi/tamil film songs.
Anyhow I find melody in old tamil / hindi songs more than IR songs.
From: Aravind (@ palo7.pacific.net.sg) on: Fri Aug 15 22:16:43 EDT 1997

Ravi Krishna

Sorry if I had offended you in any way.

As you said, after the advent of Sun TV, people are getting more updates on TFM. But the period you mentioned, till 1990, there was no satellite TV.

I have lived in Bombay which I am sure has a larger Tamil population. But still I was not able to keep myself updated on TFM to the extent of living in TN. I am sure you get lesser chances in Delhi (Are we diverting.....?)
From: Kitcha (@ dhcp232-185.eel.ufl.edu) on: Wed Aug 27 15:26:24 EDT 1997

Kumar:
Almost every movie of IR's is/was a good one......

Some were OK..............

None were poor.............
From: raj (@ ece2.ece.arizona.edu) on: Fri Sep 12 15:44:46 EDT 1997

late response to satya keerthi about
"chinna thayi" songs:

besides, kottaya vittu song, there is one
another i like :
" nan yerri karai yorum ninnu,
ettu thesai parkum pothu..."
wow..what a song..still lingers in my
ears..
-raj
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Sep 12 20:50:44 EDT 1997

Raj:

Ravi has already listed this song. I fully agree
with you: it's a very nice song. I also felt that the
picturization of the song in the movie was very
good. A nice flowing river (rural atmosphere),
the heroine is washing clothes (or something
like that) on one bank and the hero looks at her
(sight-adichufying!)
from the other bank (just whiling away his time)
looking at her and singing the song.
From: Sriram Lakshman (@ sf-dnpqc-038.compuserve.net) on: Mon Jul 6 19:50:43 EDT 1998

I agree with some of you that MSVs tunes like SD Burman's, Madan Mohan's , Roshan's, Naushad's had superior melody content when compared to those of IR. FYI, a sandham (tamil word) is the basic structure on which a tune is composed. You will note that MSV sandhams were much more complex and had a natural expression which created the appropriate feeling in the listener (for example :kannukku kulam ethu in karnan to name only one. There are so many.). Though IR is a very good composer, his sandhams were very short like Sundari Kannaal Oru sedhi (though overall this is a good song). IR himself admits that his favourite melodies are those composed by Naushad and MSV and he himself wanted to compose the orchestration for an MSV melody for a long time. He finally got his chance in Vaa vennlila unnaithane vaanam theduthe.

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