Is Ilaiyaraja the only good MD in TFM?

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Is Ilaiyaraja the only good MD in TFM? Is Ilaiyaraja the only good MD in TFM?

Topic started by Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on Thu Jun 26 08:16:49 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on: Thu Jun 26 08:20:09 EDT 1997

Lately discussions here have been only abt ilaiyaraja and only ilaiyaraja. Ilaiyraja , I accept,is one of the best MDs we ever had but he is not the only one. Come on guys I think its high time we start discussing abt other MDs who were equally good in their own ways. Im sure there are enough stuff to be discussed on MDs like Viswnathan Ramamurthy,MSV,KVM,Vkumar,GRamanathan,Shankar Ganesh etc etc. And also I feel
we shouldnt restrict ourselves discussing only abt the music aspect of TFM. We can very well talk abt the
lyrics,singers, song sequences etc etc.

Lets do something new before this discussion forum turns into a big bore
From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Thu Jun 26 09:35:58 EDT 1997

I agree with you.

G.Ramanathan was a great genius of his time. His quantity of output was not great but his quality.
Look at his score for Ambikapathy.

Will add more on GRamanathan later.
From: Thenraja Kaliappan (@ 167.193.67.47) on: Fri Jun 27 11:28:57 EDT 1997

I think Viswnathan & Ramamurthy are the trend setters for modern TFM. If you visit 'Palaya Paadal Pakkam' you would agree with what has been written about MSV. A real genius.

I would consider 'Karnan' as a materpiece for Viswnathan - Ramamurthy and 'Ulagam Sutrum vaalipan', 'Apoorva Raagangal', and 'Ninaithale Inikkum' as materpieces for MSV.
From: Ramki (@ proxy11.cyberway.com.sg) on: Sat Jun 28 00:32:24 EDT 1997

There are lots of good V-R albums that can be listed.
Paasamalar,Paadhakaanikkai,Paalum palamum,
Veerathirumagan,Sumaithangi,nenjil or aalayam
are few.

Even KVMahadevan has contributed a lot esp
songs from Kungumam, Thillana Mohanambal,Thiruvarutchelvar
are still hauting me
From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ client-116-2.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jun 28 10:14:01 EDT 1997

G Ramanathan's superb scores :

Ambikapathy
Utthama Puthiran

He also scored a lot of music for MKT's films.
I think for most of MKT's films were scored either by GR or by Papanasam Sivan.

Anybody care to more or correct ?

About VR-MSV, I think MSV was the real creative force behind the duo. I consider VR to be a piggybacker. In my opinion this was a unequal team and this was what led to the breakup. Look at MSV's and VR's careers after the breakup. I cannot think of one song scored by VR in his solo career. Guys, am I justified or am I mistaken.

By the way in almost all of MSV's films, he had a music assistant ('Udhavi') of whom two were prominent - Pugazhendhi and Joseph Krishna. What were their roles/contributions to MSV's music?
From: Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-4-135.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Sat Jun 28 12:58:43 EDT 1997

KVM gave great songs. HEre is a list:

Konji Konji Pesi.......Kaithi Kannayiram,
Ondre Kullam Endru.....Pallandu Vaalgha
Unnai Kaanatha......Ithayakamalam,
Mannavan vanthaanadi......Thiruvarutselvar,
Pothigaimalai Uchiyile.......Thiruvilaiyadal,
Nalanthana......... Thillana Mohanambal
Manapparai..........Makkalai Petra Maharaasi,
Neela Niram........... En Annan,
Unnai Kaanatha..........Ithayakamalam,
Iravinil Aatam.......... Navarathiri,
Ithayaveenai............Iruvar Ullam,
Unnai Solli........ Kulamagal Radhai
Kallile Kalaivannam kandaan.......Kumudam,
Kaaviyama......... Paavai Vilakku,
Aayiram Nilave Vaa.........Adimai Penn,
Uzhaikkum Kaikale........Thanippiravi
Kaverikkaraiyirukku........ Thaayaikkaatha Thanayan

There were MDs like Vijaybhaskar, V.Kumar who have
given excellent songs. Can someone post a list of
these two MDs. Who did this song "Vaa nila nila"
from Pattinappravesam ? Vijaybhaskar? This is one of my alltime fav's.
From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ client-116-3.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jun 28 15:26:39 EDT 1997

Vaan nila nila alla was composed by MSV.

V Kumar was the aasthana composer for KBalachander before MSV.

Some songs of VKumar

Kaadhodudhan naan pesuven
Madanorchavam (Sadurangam)
Ennodu kannan en pesavillai (Thaaippasam)

A song by Vijayabhaskar -
Anbu Megame (Engamma Sabatham)

Listen to this song by KVM

Mullaippoo pallakku (Vani Rani)
with jazzy/bluesy guitars it sounds fresh even today.

Similarly these songs by MSV

Pushparagam (Thanikkudithanam)
Paaduvathu Naana (SPB with Vani Jayaram)
(Nool Veli) great song !
From: Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on: Sat Jun 28 20:46:55 EDT 1997

Additions on VKumar and Vijay Bhaskar:

VKumar:

Aadi adangum vazhkkai ada(neerkumizhi-Sirgazhi)
punnagai mannan poovizhi kannan(Iru kodugal-Suseela, Jamuna rani)
Unakkenna kurachal nee oru raaja(Velli vizha-MSV-MSV sings for first time under another
MDs Music)
Moothaval nee koduthai vazhvile munnetram(arangetram-Suseela)
Naan unnai vazhthi paadugiren(Noothukku nooru-Suseela)
Unnidam mayangugiren ullathaal nerungugiren(thaen
sindhudhe vaanam-KJY-a beautiful piece)
Vazhvil sowbhagyam vandhadhu(thoondil meen-Suseela,SPB)
ennnenjil ennenavo ragasiyam(Thoondil meen-Jaichandran,Swarna)

VijayBhaskar:

Samsaaram enbadhu veenai(Mayangugiraal oru maadhu)
Sugam aayiram en ninaivile(")
Varavendum vazhkkaiyil vasandham(")
From: Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on: Sat Jun 28 20:48:14 EDT 1997

Noolveli has one more excellent song by Balamuralikrishna

Mounathil vilaiyadum manasaatchiye(great lyrics
by Kannadasan)
From: Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on: Sat Jun 28 20:53:13 EDT 1997

Regarding Pugazhendhi: He assisted only Mahadevan
and not MSV. 'annaiyin aanai'was their first film
together.
SPB once mentioned in an iview: If not for
pugazhendhi, I couldnt have done Sankarabharanam.
Im always indebted to him for the intense
training he gave in classical music.
From: Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-3-35.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Sat Jun 28 22:23:13 EDT 1997

Who did the music for this beautiful song
"Thangath therodum Azhaginile,
Indha Raasaathi Koluvirundhal
Indha Raasaathi paarvayile
Andha Raasaavum Thavamirundhaan..."
Was it MSV/VBhaskar/Vkumar? Lyrics Kannadhaasan?
Singer SPB.
From: Ravi (@ 201-219-116.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Jun 29 18:42:54 EDT 1997

Gopal,
That song was scored by Sankar-Ganesh. I don't remember the movie but it had 3 heroes (not so populuar).
Also, do you guys have any info. about MD G.K Venkatesh. One excellent song I can recall is 'Thaen sindhudhae vanam' in Ponnukku Thanga Manasu
(Sivakuamr,Jayachitra) - What a melody! Also
I remember he is one of 5 MDs that scored music for movie (title?). The others being IR, MSV, KVM and Sankar-Ganesh.

Ravi
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Sun Jun 29 20:32:51 EDT 1997

5 MD movie is "kannil theriyum kathigal". (famous
song "naan unna nenachen")
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Sun Jun 29 20:33:49 EDT 1997

MSV's assistant Joseph krishna is a piano player. (From
MSV interview).
From: Ramki (@ maine.proteq.com.sg) on: Sun Jun 29 20:45:46 EDT 1997

Some more albums of GRamanathan:

VeeraPandiya Kattabomman
Kappalottiya thamizhan
From: sathyakumar (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Mon Jun 30 08:26:20 EDT 1997

GRamanathan movies:
KatahavarAyan - Vaa kalaaba mayile..odi nee
TMS voicela kannernu...romba nalla paatu
Vkumar:
unnaith thotta kaatru vanthu ennaith thottadhu

Last week in SUN TV I saw these two movies with
good songs:
Paalaivanach solai - MD Sankar Ganesh -
- Megame Megame
- aalaanaalum aalu iva aluthamaana aalu
- powrnami neram paavi oruthy minnal pole munnal
ponaal.ponnu ooruku puthuso endrEn..

Justice viswanath - Modern Theaters - MD VEDHA
(not Deva):
- Ithu neerodu selginra oodam..by Seerkazi
- silai seiyak kaigal undu..thangam konjam thevai

Veda is another forgotten (and died in a young
age) MD - who used to be Modern Theaters aasthaana
MD. Iru vallavargal, vallavan oruvan, vallavanukku vallavan, athey kangal, cid sankar,...

MSV was NOT one of the MD in Knnil Theriyum Kathaigal - it was: IR, KVM, SG, Vkumar, GKVenki
The movie was produced by GKV.
For some reason GKV couldn't get his GURU MSV
(GKV was VR's assistant).

After separation TKR scored alone for close to
10 movies:
thangach surangam
- naan pirantha naatukentha naadu siriyathu
- santhanak kudathuk kulle panthugal rendu
Nilgri Express
Naan
Madras to Pondichery
Oru beemsing padam ( a dead body getting changed
between different hands..)
soppu seepu kannadai
From: Ramki (@ maine.proteq.com.sg) on: Mon Jun 30 20:46:36 EDT 1997

Sathyakumar, I think 'Kannil theriyum kadhaigal' was produced by MNRajam and ALRaghavan.

TKRamamurthy musicle vandha Beemsingh padam
'saadhu mirandaal'.Avar musicle vandha Innoru marakka mudiyadha pattukkal konda padam 'marakka mudiyuma'.(vasantha kaalam varumo,kaagidha odam kadal alai meedhu- Kannadasan varigal sandhosham tharalennu Karunanidhiye punaindha paadal)

Vedha didnt have any originality at all. He used
to blindly follow the popular hindi tunes.
To my knowledge only a couple of films had
'original'songs by Veda. They are

Parthiban kanavu(udhaya vaanil idhaya ilave)
Adhae kangal(ho ho ethanai azhagu)
From: rajan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Jul 1 20:26:34 EDT 1997

Some more good songs

ninaiththAl unaith thAn ninaippEn (vijaybhAskar)
chinach chinak kanavugaLE kaNNA (Adhithyan)

the second was a pseudoclassical song. The orchestration was also
not that great. But the totality of the song has a soothing effect.

Rajan
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Jul 2 02:05:14 EDT 1997

I don't find any of you even making a mention of
Govardhanam. Although he has mainly worked as an
assistant of MSV in many many movies, he has also
composed very good music for some movies; only two
I can remember: Pattanaththil Bootham and Poovum
Pootum. Ah, how sweet are these two songs from
these movies: Andha sivakaami maganidam sEthi
solladi; NaadhaSvara OsaiyilE dhEvan vandhu
paadugindraan. The first song is one of the all
time great duets according to me, and has an
excellent picturization in the movie: K.R. Vijaya
sings the song in front of an audience, and her
imagined duet with Jaishankar is beautifully
carried through her eyes. I think Ramanna was
the director of this movie. Does any one know of
other movies for which Govardhanam scored the music?

Also, I don't find much talk about Sudarsanam
(Annai, Poombuhaar, Kaarthigai Dheepam, Naanum
Oru Penn) and A.M.Raja (Kalyaanap Parisu, Thenilavu). Any comments about their music?
From: Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on: Wed Jul 2 05:51:29 EDT 1997

AMRaja,to my opinion,could have become a great
MD if he wasnt denied the right chances(i guess
many will know that MSV had a big role in seeing
that AMRaja wasnt given his due).
Especially the songs from thenilavu and aadiperukku were totally different from V-R stuff.
'kaalaiyum neeye maalaiyum neeye'is a masterpiece(mm what a great humming by SJanaki).
'thanimaiyile inimai kaana mudiyuma'(aadiperukku)
is still popular among us. Orchestration
for 'kaveri oram kavi sonna paadal'(aadiperukku)was excellent(wonderful lyrics by kaviyarasu).

To summarise almost all of the songs from the above three albums were great
From: Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on: Wed Jul 2 05:53:43 EDT 1997

Who was the MD for 'meenda sorgam'??(kalaiye
en vazhkkaiyin dhisai maatrinai,thuyilaadha penn
ondru kanden,mana naatiya medaiyil aadinen)
Was it Sudarsanam??
From: ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Wed Jul 2 08:54:17 EDT 1997

I think the MD for Meenda Sorgam is Chalapathi Rao. (or could be Sudharsanam). Sudharsanam's another great song is Aadatha Manamum from Kalathur Kannamma.
As far Govardhanam, his another good one Gangai Nadhiyoram (VaniJ, KJ) from Varaprasadam.

Ravi
From: Ramki (@ 202.42.210.83) on: Wed Jul 2 20:29:17 EDT 1997

I think the MD for varaprasadham is Parthasarathy.
Anyone to confirm?
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Jul 2 21:50:17 EDT 1997

Ramki:

"MSV had a big role in making sure that AMRaja was
not given his due" -- I don't know anything about
this; can you please explain? I have always been
of the opinion that MSV was always a builder of
new talent, not a destroyer!
From: MSK (@ dhcp-868664293.qualcomm.com) on: Mon Jul 21 20:46:06 EDT 1997

I agree. The MD's b4 and after IR sure deserve a discussion , But it's kind of hard to talk tamil music sans IR . such is his influence ..
may be start a separate group for IR fans ;-))
From: Sundar Ramanathan (@ 202.54.10.69) on: Sun Jul 27 06:24:23 EDT 1997

who was the md for "ninaiththathu niraivERum" ?
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Sun Jul 27 21:08:21 EDT 1997

Sundar:

You mean 'Ninaippadhu Ninaiverum'? The MD:
M.L.Srikanth (the one who hums in "kaadhal
kaadhal endru pesa" and sings with VJ in
"ninaippadhu niraiverum nee irundhaal
ennodu").
From: Rajagopal Adhepalli (@ m21.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Sat Nov 8 19:10:41 EST 1997

Pleased to note this discussion.Why has this stopped?I wud like to discuss on great singers of TFM especially Smt.Suseela,whose visibility is low.
From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ihot-dyn114.ihot.com) on: Sat Jan 17 22:26:03 EST 1998

Some great songs of V.Kumar
Sapthaswaram Punnagayil Kanden...SPB, Vani
Engellam Valayosai Ketkinratho ?..TMS
Kannoru pakkam Nejoru Pakkam ..TMS Susheela
Vilakke Nee thantha Olinane....TMS
Indru muthal Selvamithu...SPB,Swarna
Oru Naal Yaaro Enaa Paadal ....P.Susheela
Oru Paarvai Paarkum Pothu....SPB
Padaithane Brahmadevan ...SPB

Some great songs of VijayBhaskar
Yaarukku Yaar sontham....KJ Yesudoss
Anbu Megame ingu odivaa..SPB Vani

Does anybody have "Vasanthakaalam Varumo?" from Marakka mudiyuma ? Please get back to me if you do..
From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.27.250) on: Thu Aug 13 19:16:03 EDT 1998

I would like to answer the very first question, "Why about IR all the time ?". It is seriously the originality that people appreciate. Many of MDs with the exemption of G.Ramanathan,MSV and KVM, have been flicking tunes consitently and this makes a discussion on them go stale. Inspite of discussing the copied version we may directly discuss if you wish the original versions themselves.

And now for the three above mentioned MDs and lot of others like Dhakshinamurthy. It is understandable that G.Ramanathan made lilting tunes out of ragas. But we must understand they were just too classical. Hence a commoner in the village could rarely understand. Take KVM. He is one of those venerable MDs whose tunes shall ever be preserved but at selected desks. Only those who listen to Carnatic are able to appreciate him but for some films like Sankarabaranam and Thiruvilayadal. The former had SPB in it that was one of the main reasons it spelled success even in the remote areas. The latter had the script and actors for support and the songs were major hits. But we cannot deny that he was the first person to introduce to the cine music an altogether different rhythm which is under his name. It is called "KVM" rhythm and it was used in the song "Chinna Paappa Enga Chella Paappa". But this was made explicitly famous by IR through many songs for eg "Pattu Vanna Rosavam Paartha Kannu Moodadham" and "Uchchi Vagideduthu Pichchippoo Vachcha Kili".

Next comes MSV. I have no words to comment on this genius and he was the one who took the TFM by storm. He was the first successful MD in fusing the eastern and western types.

One common point about all these non - IR MDs is that they had never been in a position use all the instruments properly. By this I mean they did not concentrate much on the interludes and preludes. Hear to some violin pieces of IR and that of MSV. The former surely is more pleasant than the latter which gives high pitched shrieks. Also all of them did no justice to RERECORDING. Only after the advent of Maestro did Bass guitar and western classical receive recognition.

Another fine point to note is that you have everything in IR's compositions. Rock,pop,jazz,westernclassical,hindustani,carnatic,country and then his own style. I believe he satisfies many genres of fans and that is why there is a lot of talk about him

Sorry for having taken a long time to discuss. Any comments please?

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