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Inspiration for "Uppu karuvaadu" - Mudhalvan

Topic started by Raghu (@ 164.164.86.66) on Mon Apr 16 03:38:22 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There's an old Gemini-Savithri song, whose second line is remarkably similar to the catchy first line of the final song in Mudhalvan -
"Uppu karuvadu". The song I'm referring to is "Anru oomai pennallo, inru pesum pennallo, aiyya unnai kandu, thamizh paadum peNNallo"

"maNippuraavum madappuraavum manasil pesiya pechallo"
"mangai neeyum thannanthaniye manasil paadiya paattallo"

doesn't that sound pretty similar to "uppu karuvadu ..."????

I'm certainly not implying that AR Rahman has deliberately copied this song. Merely suggesting the hidden influence of our formative years in our later years.

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Responses:

• From: e (@ 210.214.5.230) on: Mon Apr 16 05:19:33 EDT 2001
  
  Raghu, appadiyellAm sollakkoodAdhuppA:-))
  `nAn adhellAm kEttadhE kidaiyAdhu...no chance for inspiration...you see I don't listen to TFM at all in order to not get influenced...'appadi, ippadinnellAm sollaRa `humble, MDs inga palarum uNdu, neenga eppadi avALai comment paNNalAm?:-))
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 64.104.128.15) on: Mon Apr 16 07:36:35 EDT 2001
  
  Also, u 'll be termed a HCIRF! In case u didn't know, HCIRF is a license for anyone to bash u..
  
  
• From: Philosopher (@ 12.29.192.65) on: Mon Apr 16 08:23:50 EDT 2001
  
  Uppu Karuvadu resembles "Ayechu Pizhaikkum Thozhile Idhudhana enni paarunga - an old NSK song music by G Ramanathan". "varaaga Nadhkkarai ooram' can also be added in the same family of songs. I believe there is another old movie or devotional song (?) "Neela Karunagarane Nadaraja, Neelakandane" that sounds very close. I think "Andru Oomai Pennallo" is a little different
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 164.164.86.66) on: Mon Apr 16 09:17:43 EDT 2001
  
  I'm pretty sure that uppu karuvadu oora vachha soru sounds very close to "manippuraavum maadappuravum" in fact even the metres used are the same. I observed this while I was playing Uppu karuvadu in a keyboard and it sounded familiar and then played manippuravum --- to my biggest surprise.
  
  In fact I've observed the same with another three songs they are
  
  Adi Ennadi raakkamma pallaakku nellippu en nenju klungudhadi
  
  Mookkuthi poo meley kaathu ukkaandhu pesuthamma (Mouna geethangal)
  
  Vennilavey vennilavey vinnai thaandi varuvaaya (minsara kanavu)
  
  
• From: raghu (@ 164.164.86.66) on: Mon Apr 16 09:25:37 EDT 2001
  
  Echu pizhaikkum & neela karunaagaraney are identical (not inspirations) so let us leave them alone.
  
  One more on the lines of inspiration (this one from Ilayaraajaa)
  
  A song from Anbey Sangeetha
  The opening humming of the song "Chinna pura onru" by P Susheela.
  
  For difficulty in representing the notation, I leave it to the surfer to listen to this humming with the "happy birthday to you" song in mind. The development used in both the tunes are identical.
  
  I was hoping somebody else might have also felt the same way while listening to these songs ... anyway looks like my observations are the result of pattern matching with very few initial patterns.
  
  
• From: NagaS (@ 202.169.139.40) on: Mon Apr 16 09:38:29 EDT 2001
  
  I think it is 'Dheena karuNakarane', not 'Neela karuNakarane'.,
  
  NagaS
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ 204.255.14.188) on: Mon Apr 16 10:16:03 EDT 2001
  
  Raghu,
  
  You are right. 'uppu karuvaadu' is similar to 'manippuraavum maadappuraavum'. once I mentioned this in 'copying in tamil history' thread. ARR may not have done this intentionally but in future he should be extremely careful while composing the first two lines (catchy lines!) of any song.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Apr 16 10:40:01 EDT 2001
  
  "in future he should be extremely careful while composing the first two lines (catchy lines!) of any song. "
  As far as I know, this is where ARR concentrates most of his effort :)
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Mon Apr 16 11:41:18 EDT 2001
  
  naveen, kiru
  
  U R right. Only the first 2 lines need to be different. Listen to the third line in 'usilampatti peNkutti' (gentleman)
  
  kooda mEle kooda vechu kuchanooru pOravalE
  kuruvi thaan kEppaayaa
  
  Compare with
  
  thiruchendoorin kadalOraththil
  senthilnaathan arasaangkam
  
  
• From: NJ (@ 204.255.14.188) on: Mon Apr 16 12:14:22 EDT 2001
  
  digression:
  'En veetu thotathil' sounds like one of Christian
  devotional song (keerthanai) 'kurusinil thongiya kurudhiyum vadiya'
  but even that Christian song is lifted from some carnatic song. I do not know the original. but this song is familier among Tamil Christians. thats how we could spot immediatly when Gentleman
  songs were released!
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Apr 16 13:07:00 EDT 2001
  
  I have a feeling that ARR DOES really listen to older songs (he avoids IR I think) as part of 'research' for a new song/album. He does this in Hindi too, I guess.
  (ennappA, idhu Edho college'la IEEE paper submit pannaRa madhiri irukku :))
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Mon Apr 16 23:13:16 EDT 2001
  
  Raghu, good finds. Please continue posting such similar songs/inspirations in the copied thread. i can realize the humming by PS(or Jenci?!!)at the beginning of Chinna pura is similar somewhat to the Happy Birthday tune..the ups and downs..there might be a small shift in scale..
  
  Mannipuravum sounds very close to Uppukaruvaadu..
  
  
  I have found the prelude piece of "thaniye thanath thaniye" to be close to ponvaaanam panneer thoovuthu's start/prelude(the initial SJ humming)..Also the rain sound in that song has also been used here by ARR in the prelude of thaniye thannan thaniye if you notice..
  
  Kiru, "I have a feeling that ARR DOES really listen to older songs (he avoids IR I think) as part of 'research' for a new song/album."
  
  He listens to IR's songs too apparently ;)) A recently released ARR hindi album(1 2 ka 4??) has a song called "payaliyaan gungunaare" or something like that. The starting line is very close to "shenbagame shenbagame" and "inji iduppazhagi"(this song has been mentioned by ARR as one of his favourites..so he obviously listens to IRs songs)
  
  
• From: raghu (@ 164.164.86.66) on: Tue Apr 17 00:21:51 EDT 2001
  
  Rahman has in an interview mentioned that while composing "Azhagaana ratchasiyey - mudhalvan " in Reethigowlai, he was confronted with the difficulty of sounding fresh & different from the "Chinnakkannan azhaikkiraan - Kavikkuyil". IR has a few more Reethigowlais to his credit - Thalaiyai kuniyum thaamaraiyey (Oru oadai nadhiyaagirathu), Raman kadhai kelungal (Sippikkul muthu). Though Azhagaana ratchisiyey does not sound similar to "Chinna kannan azhaikkiraan" it is strikingly similar to "Thalaiyai kuniyum thamaraiyey". In fact the lines
  "agila meenu thaan aatha kadakkuma"
  ..................................
  
  is very similar to the 2nd interlude "solo violin piece" from Thalaiyai kuniyum. The development of both the tunes too show a similarity.
  
  
• From: Peter Pan (@ 203.199.87.3) on: Tue Apr 17 00:35:24 EDT 2001
  
  When I listened to the Hindi PUKAR song, 'SuntA hai mera khuda', it reminded me of an old Shivaji song... and I sang the lines again & again and realizd that it was definitely based on the old number. The song is:
  'KallellAm mANikka kal Aguma kalay(kadhai?) ellAm kaNgaL sollum Kalai Aguma'.
  
  People may argue that both are based on 'MAyA mALava GowLa raga'. However the structure of the melody in both the songs is VERY identical and can not be brushed off as a mere 'coincidence'.
  Even the alaap kind of humming in the old song (Susheela or LRE?) finds its place in a new avataar in the Hindi song (humming by Swarnalatha).
  
  What say?
  
  
• From: IsaiPriyan (@ 164.164.86.66) on: Sun Apr 22 23:04:24 EDT 2001
  
  Hey folks,
  
  One more interesting thing. I happened to watch the programee "Sa Re Ga Ma" in Zee TV few weeks back. I found an interesting thing... Yes !! "VARAAGA NADHI KARAI YORAM" from Sangamam is a direct lift from one famous Urdu (Pakistani) song. It is a complete lift, in the sense, every line (ofcourse, thee tune only !!) has been copied. I remember, one Pakistani participated in this programme and sang the original song.
  
  Any idea what the original song is ??
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.20) on: Mon Apr 23 01:53:02 EDT 2001
  
  This is old hat Isaipriyan! Subbudu has made a huge fart out of this already a few years/months back and coming from a constipated stomach like his, it, understandably stank for quite some time!
  
  Its a sindhi song popularized by Pakitani singer Runa Laila and it goes 'dumadum mast kalandar'.
  
  It could be inspired but not same at all! Its on the same lines of IR's 'aasa adhigam vechu' (Marupadiyum) being reused as 'maanam thilangi' in Thenmaavin Kombathu by Benny Igalsiaus.
  
  The tune's basic raagam is changed and the sandham remains the same!
  
  --Karthik
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Mon Apr 23 03:22:11 EDT 2001
  
  Karthik S, the malayalam song's similiarity to the Tamil one doesnt end with Sandham alone!! Check out the interludes, how the notes progress and you would find the same "ups and downs" in the Malayalam song too. It was just short of a blatant copy. It was definitely much much more than an inspiration.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Mon Apr 23 04:52:25 EDT 2001
  
  The MD for "Then Maavin Kompbath" was Bani Ignatious". He got the Kerala State Award for that movie.
  But unfortunate fellow! once he got award, people started critisizing him for the copy.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.20) on: Mon Apr 23 05:19:18 EDT 2001
  
  Vijay:
  
  I agree. Bad example on my part!
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue Apr 24 11:57:06 EDT 2001
  
  Peter Pan,
  It seems to be the same, except that the thAlam is different. (Pukar song and kallellAm mAnikka kallAgumA).
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue Apr 24 12:37:36 EDT 2001
  
  OK! So Raghu started it. But is it necessary for all the regulars to let a parallel thread continue, and with many of the same points rehashed, in a different thread? C'mon Guys. Let's stick to one thread for one topic as far as possible. Please use the COPYING IN TFM thread for discussing similar songs.
  
  
• From: kk (@ 172.145.141.242) on: Sat Apr 28 13:02:18 EDT 2001
  
  GUYS,
  Just pallavi doesnt make a song.
  
  Uppukaruadu is simple tune and we can find many such songs in the past.
  
  "engum ulla allah ezhaigalluku ellam" from dharamseelan has same tune as pallavi.
  
  But I dont think Any one have to copy for such a simple tune. Its a coincedence.
  
  And just picking one pallavi tune you cant make a whole song. The is saranam and interludes.
  
  
• From: KITKAT (@ 202.188.81.76) on: Mon Apr 30 04:35:11 EDT 2001
  
  Hey guys,
  
  The mukkalaala mukkaabula song in Mudhalvan ends with a fast synthetic drum beat copied from Dr.Alban.
  
  I know this has been mentioned a 100 times here and I have even said that it is from a sound sample which both used, but just to keep you guys going............
  
  

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